Author Topic: Rechnitz's Lakewood Speech (Read 81180 times)

Shkop · « **Reply #300 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:01:14 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on January 28, 2016, 01:55:43 PM

LOL, CBC is a Brisker!

Maybe as a brisker, cherry would appreciate a good svara. Although they really should have thrown the money right back at him, they were afraid that he might retract and then it would be assur to return the money. So they figured lets see if he retracts. If he does, limafreya nothing happened. I mean the speech never happened because its dvarim bialma (hayotzim min halev) but the money avada was given because that has mamushis. What do you hold?

skyguy918 · « **Reply #301 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:02:54 PM »

Quote from: luckyluck on January 28, 2016, 01:52:02 PM

People who would perfectly fit in a type of school, be it kollel or working or modern, are being rejected from that type of school for subjective and superficial reasons (deemed valid by the hanhala and/or the parents body) and are relegated to a different level inappropriate for them.

There's 2 sides to each situation. The parents obviously deem themselves a good fit for those schools, otherwise they wouldn't accept them. The schools obviously feel differently. The reason why the schools have all the power (or at least the schools with 10x more applicants than spots) is simple supply and demand.

Now who's right objectively (regarding what's an appropriate fit and what's not)? That's gonna be different in each case. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where I'd side with the schools, and others with the parents.

Shkop · « **Reply #302 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:04:36 PM »

Quote from: churnbabychurn on January 28, 2016, 01:59:11 PM

I'm saying that taking you shouldn't take money if you will then be beholden to the givers deios that you don't agree with.
It's very very simple. Nothing really to analyze.
Not daas Torah. Just common sense.

seems to me that your common sense is hepech daas torah. You must be a bal habus. What school do you send your kid to?

Aha. only if you are beholden to the dayos. So of course in your opinion satmar brisk etc is wrong for a simple reason. Because even if they take from the government they wont be beholden to the zioinist dayos. So what is wrong with taking?
And if they will be beholden once they take, then why is this any different?

yuneeq · « **Reply #303 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:05:05 PM »

Quote from: Shkop on January 28, 2016, 01:34:49 PM

I take that as an avoidance. totally irrelevant comment. Can you or cherry and all those types please let me know if the right thing according to hashkas hatorah is to return the money? I need to hear your reine daas torah.

Lets have that discussion.

Huh I didn't avoid any discussion.
Look at what I was responding too.

skyguy918 · « **Reply #304 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:06:08 PM »

Quote from: Shkop on January 28, 2016, 02:04:36 PM

seems to me that your common sense is hepech daas torah. You must be a bal habus. What school do you send your kid to?

Aha. only if you are beholden to the dayos. So of course in your opinion satmar brisk etc is wrong for a simple reason. Because even if they take from the government they wont be beholden to the zioinist dayos. So what is wrong with taking?
And if they will be beholden once they take, then why is this any different?

And you said my writing was unclear

Shkop · « **Reply #305 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:06:17 PM »

Quote from: yuneeq on January 28, 2016, 02:05:05 PM

Huh I didn't avoid any discussion.
Look at what I was responding too.

No problem. I am fighting milchemes mitzvah so am getting a bit involved. Sorry if I stepped on your toes unfairly.

luckyluck · « **Reply #306 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:07:16 PM »

Quote from: skyguy918 on January 28, 2016, 02:02:54 PM

There's 2 sides to each situation. The parents obviously deem themselves a good fit for those schools, otherwise they wouldn't accept them. The schools obviously feel differently. The reason why the schools have all the power (or at least the schools with 10x more applicants than spots) is simple supply and demand.

Now who's right objectively (regarding what's an appropriate fit and what's not)? That's gonna be different in each case. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where I'd side with the schools, and others with the parents.

A simple example would be the daughter of divorced parents. There is no way a school could justify her rejection, yet they still do it.

Shkop · « **Reply #307 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:07:24 PM »

Quote from: skyguy918 on January 28, 2016, 02:06:08 PM

And you said my writing was unclear

Lol. But do you follow my logic? Being brutally honest, I see no justification for school not rejecting the money that they held came through a massive chilul Hashem

churnbabychurn · « **Reply #308 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:08:13 PM »

Quote from: Shkop on January 28, 2016, 02:04:36 PM

seems to me that your common sense is hepech daas torah. You must be a bal habus. What school do you send your kid to?

Aha. only if you are beholden to the dayos. So of course in your opinion satmar brisk etc is wrong for a simple reason. Because even if they take from the government they wont be beholden to the zioinist dayos. So what is wrong with taking?
And if they will be beholden once they take, then why is this any different?

Not sure what you are saying at all. Are you agreeing with what I wrote or not?

meme · « **Reply #309 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:10:01 PM »

There was an Asifah in the workings for tonight with some Chashuva speakers, not sure if will still play out after letter

ya · « **Reply #310 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:12:43 PM »

Quote from: meme on January 28, 2016, 02:10:01 PM

There was an Asifah in the workings for tonight with some Chashuva speakers, not sure if will still play out after letter

What do you mean? an event to bash him?

meme · « **Reply #311 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:13:46 PM »

Quote from: ya on January 28, 2016, 02:12:43 PM

What do you mean? an event to bash him?

Not to bash him, but to be מוחה on כבוד התורה

skyguy918 · « **Reply #312 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:19:30 PM »

Quote from: luckyluck on January 28, 2016, 02:07:16 PM

A simple example would be the daughter of divorced parents. There is no way a school could justify her rejection, yet they still do it.

I personally feel that this case as presented is not justifiable. But if for a particular school space was part of the issue, then I feel that it's incumbent on the school to rely on daas torah (and specifically not the parent body) to come up with 'subjective' guidelines for acceptance. I don't think you're doing anyone any favors by making a lottery, or taking first come first serve. I find it highly unlikely that daas torah would say to take one child over another specifically because of divorce in and of itself, but I'm not daas torah, so who knows.

yochiek93 · « **Reply #313 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:23:59 PM »

Quote from: meme on January 28, 2016, 02:13:46 PM

Not to bash him, but to be מוחה on כבוד התורה

And say what

Sport · « **Reply #314 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:24:42 PM »

Quote from: meme on January 28, 2016, 02:13:46 PM

Not to bash him, but to be מוחה on כבוד התורה

I hope you're joking.

Shkop · « **Reply #315 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:26:48 PM »

Quote from: churnbabychurn on January 28, 2016, 02:08:13 PM

Not sure what you are saying at all. Are you agreeing with what I wrote or not?

I am not too elitist to do some chazarah, cherry.

You said this:

I'm saying that taking you shouldn't take money if you will then be beholden to the givers deios that you don't agree with.
It's very very simple. Nothing really to analyze.
Not daas Torah. Just common sense.

Klur. Only if you become beholden to his opinion may you NOT take. If you are beholden you should return the money. Meaning, if someone gets up and is mivazeh talmidei chachamim and then gives a million bucks, one MAY take since they don't agree with what he had to say. (That is clearly against RMBM by the way. see Avos perek 4 mishna 5 for starters)

Now, according to that (wrong) hashkafah, then satmar and brisk and others are wrong for not taking. They should use the money for their mosdos. Why? Because, as you say, they will never be beholden anyway to the government. Binei Brak takes. Are they beholden? They don't even serve in the army.

And besides, the sevarah is full of holes. Why is it only an issue of beliveing in his hashkafah? The ACT of taking is a chillul Hashem because it demonstrates that deep down money is more important than what is correct. Is that not true? And the RMBM is clear on that point.

Finally, I know you say it is common sense, but its a svorah. Shouldn't your sevorah require daas torah? After all, its not 1+1=2. It is establishing a full blown policy of when to take from a wealthy gvir in a case where he spews forth chillul Hashem.

Hayotzei midvareinu, your shlugged up. tiyuvta d'cherry tiyuvta.

Baruch · « **Reply #316 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:38:25 PM »

@Shkop, calm the ---- down!!!

Shkop · « **Reply #317 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:40:33 PM »

Quote from: Baruch on January 28, 2016, 02:38:25 PM

@Shkop, calm the ---- down!!!

why am i excited? Because I wrote teyuvta....if so I am sorry.
Although I see plenty of heated debate on a million of topics on ddf. I am far from the most vocal

churnbabychurn · « **Reply #318 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:41:02 PM »

What is cherry?

Shkop · « **Reply #319 on:** January 28, 2016, 02:42:10 PM »

Quote from: churnbabychurn on January 28, 2016, 02:41:02 PM

What is cherry?

Oops, churn. Retarded mistake. But what is your counter?