Rechnitz's Lakewood Speech

[Shkop]

It means to the various schools under R' Kanarek, which is who the event he was attending was for.

OK. How many schools does that come out to?
Do they, or any of them, agree or disagree with what he said?
And do any of them disagree with the tone?
Do they consider the speech a chillul Hashem?

If it was, my question to you is this: Is the right thing to return the money?
Yes or no.

The answer is yes.
Will it happen. No?

[yuneeq]

What's with the 2 ms? "$100mm" "$1.5mm"

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-correct-way-to-represent-1-Million-1M-or-1MM

[Shkop]

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-correct-way-to-represent-1-Million-1M-or-1MM

I take that as an avoidance. totally irrelevant comment. Can you or cherry and all those types please let me know if the right thing according to hashkas hatorah is to return the money? I need to hear your reine daas torah.

Lets have that discussion.

[skyguy918]

In his beautiful letter asking for michila he sums up the main point he was hammering at.


Let me be clear: I put most of the blame on the elitists. An elitist is someone who calls a mosad and holds it hostage, forcing their will and desires, while clearly harming other children. They are generally of the belief that they are superior or frummer than everyone else. They put themselves on a pedestal and insist on their way or the highway. Instead of viewing other kids as the Aibishter‘s children, they view every child as a potential threat to their child’s reputation. This happens every year at nearly every mosad. I can understand a parent wanting a school where all the children come from homes without internet, televisions or other negative influences, but if you don’t want your child in a class that has children whose fathers work to provide parnassah for their family, then you are an elitist. The working father can be ehrlich, koveia ittim, and have all the right hashkafos, but that’s not good enough for you, because you consider yourself on a much higher madreigah.

The one point where I should’ve been clearer is that the vast majority of Lakewood are not elitists. They are humble bnei Torah whose zechusim we rely on to exist. But as in every religion and every culture, the extremists and the most vocal carry the show. While the elitists are the mi’uta d’miuta, they’ll cause 90% of the problem. In my opinion, it’s incumbent on all of us, as the silent majority, to speak up and not tolerate these attitudes that are the impetus and perpetuation of the problem.

He's saying one of 2 things. Either he's saying that no school should be exclusively for learning kollel/klei kodesh families - which is not really for him to say (I'm not stating my opinion one way or the other on this - I'm just saying that it's something that has to come from daas torah, not daas mamon). Or he's saying that every school - even the ones that are filled with non-kollel/klei kodesh families, are rejecting kids because they come from non-kollel/klei kodesh families. Does that make any sense.

The only other option is that there are people who work who want to be in a kollel/klei kodesh type of school, and not in the 'more modern' places, and they're being rejected from the kollel only places. How is that a problem. It seems to me that it would be a big enough crowd to have their own yeshivas. If there aren't yeshivas like that, it's on that parent body to push for them to be created.

[skyguy918]

OK. How many schools does that come out to?
Do they, or any of them, agree or disagree with what he said?
And do any of them disagree with the tone?
Do they consider the speech a chillul Hashem?

If it was, my question to you is this: Is the right thing to return the money?
Yes or no.

The answer is yes.
Will it happen. No?

So let me get this straight. You think he got up and ambushed the guy he was giving the money to with this speech? That he feels R' Kanareks mosdos bend to the vocal 'elitists', and that he would discourage that practive with his speech? The money is what would discourage that practice, if it existed in those mosdos. The speech would be for everyone else.

[skyguy918]

I take that as an avoidance. totally irrelevant comment. Can you or cherry and all those types please let me know if the right thing according to hashkas hatorah is to return the money? I need to hear your reine daas torah.

Lets have that discussion.

Lol, chill out. He was answering the guy who asked why he put 2 m's to signify millions.

[churnbabychurn]

Bottom line, IMHO as long as he sticks to what he pledged, (ie to give money, not advice) appology is accepted.

But if he continues to throw his weight around then the money should be returned.

[Shkop]

So let me get this straight. You think he got up and ambushed the guy he was giving the money to with this speech? That he feels R' Kanareks mosdos bend to the vocal 'elitists', and that he would discourage that practive with his speech? The money is what would discourage that practice, if it existed in those mosdos. The speech would be for everyone else.

You lost me. Please be a bit clearer. I can not follow your logic. And what you said before about what he wrote is way off. Please reread what he wrote.

[luckyluck]

He's saying one of 2 things. Either he's saying that no school should be exclusively for learning kollel/klei kodesh families - which is not really for him to say (I'm not stating my opinion one way or the other on this - I'm just saying that it's something that has to come from daas torah, not daas mamon). Or he's saying that every school - even the ones that are filled with non-kollel/klei kodesh families, are rejecting kids because they come from non-kollel/klei kodesh families. Does that make any sense.

The only other option is that there are people who work who want to be in a kollel/klei kodesh type of school, and not in the 'more modern' places, and they're being rejected from the kollel only places. How is that a problem. It seems to me that it would be a big enough crowd to have their own yeshivas. If there aren't yeshivas like that, it's on that parent body to push for them to be created.

People who would perfectly fit in a type of school, be it kollel or working or modern, are being rejected from that type of school for subjective and superficial reasons (deemed valid by the hanhala and/or the parents body) and are relegated to a different level inappropriate for them.

[Baruch]

Bottom line, IMHO as long as he sticks to what he pledged, (ie to give money, not advice) appology is accepted.

But if he continues to throw his weight around then the money should be returned.

I hope he throws his weight around and get children into schools.

(Why should he give money to a school that he feels is ran by a Baa' Gaaveh?)

What has to stop is massive speeches spewing with venom. I believe that he's learned his lesson.

(As a limud zechus his shver shlit"a is very sick, and he hears personal stories from ppl B'tzaar Gadol, ain adam nidan b'shaas kaaso)

[Shkop]

Bottom line, IMHO as long as he sticks to what he pledged, (ie to give money, not advice) appology is accepted.

But if he continues to throw his weight around then the money should be returned.

Interesting middle of the road hashkafah for cherry.. Did you hear that from Daas Torah?

You are saying that since he is giving his money to tzidakah, as he said he would, then apology accepted. In other words, had he not apologized, then in fact the right thing would be to return the money.

Question: Its been 3 days since the speech.1)  Should they have returned the money by now or stated that they wont accept the pledge? 2) Perhaps they were waiting to see if he would retract. Should they have stated something like, If he wont retract, we dont want his money...

This is all assuming your middle of the road hashkafah is correct. Perhaps, regardless, they should return the money since it was mivazeh talmidei chachamim and was a massive chilul Hashem. That sounds like a very honest approach with zero negios. Dont you think? What would they hold in Brisk?

[Dawie]

People who would perfectly fit in a type of school, be it kollel or working or modern, are being rejected from that type of school for subjective and superficial reasons (deemed valid by the hanhala and/or the parents body) and are relegated to a different level inappropriate for them.

due to the lack of space

[ya]

Bottom line, IMHO as long as he sticks to what he pledged, (ie to give money, not advice) appology is accepted.

But if he continues to throw his weight around then the money should be returned.

someone needs to throw his weight around lkwd and he has alot of it.

[luckyluck]

Bottom line, IMHO as long as he sticks to what he pledged, (ie to give money, not advice) appology is accepted.

But if he continues to throw his weight around then the money should be returned.

How convenient. He did not retract his advice, he just clarified it.

[Baruch]

What would they hold in Brisk?

LOL, CBC is a Brisker! 

[snagger]

http://www.vosizneias.com/228800/2016/01/28/lakewood-nj-rechnitz-removing-himself-from-yeshiva-acceptance-issue-offers-apologies-to-some-while-continuing-to-reprimand-elitists/ Alright the torah hating guys are publicizing the clarification which is a good sign.   

[luckyluck]

due to the lack of space

1) Not always. Many are rejected while there is space.

2) And because lack of space, subjective reasons become valid?

[churnbabychurn]

Interesting middle of the road hashkafah for cherry.. Did you hear that from Daas Torah?

You are saying that since he is giving his money to tzidakah, as he said he would, then apology accepted. In other words, had he not apologized, then in fact the right thing would be to return the money.

Question: Its been 3 days since the speech.1)  Should they have returned the money by now or stated that they wont accept the pledge? 2) Perhaps they were waiting to see if he would retract. Should they have stated something like, If he wont retract, we dont want his money...

This is all assuming your middle of the road hashkafah is correct. Perhaps, regardless, they should return the money since it was mivazeh talmidei chachamim and was a massive chilul Hashem. That sounds like a very honest approach with zero negios. Dont you think? What would they hold in Brisk?

I'm saying that taking you shouldn't take money if you will then be beholden to the givers deios that you don't agree with.
It's very very simple. Nothing really to analyze.
Not daas Torah. Just common sense.

[Sport]

"As I have clearly gotten too emotionally involved, I don’t think I’m the person to deal with the schooling issue. I have therefore decided to remove myself from this Parsha. In terms of financial support, I will continue to support this beautiful Makom Torah, and hopefully with Hashem’s help, and your Tefillos, I’ll be able to increase my support"

I hope he reconsiders, what does a bad speech have to do with not using his immense power to make sure there are no more children crying themselves to sleep?

Do you see what wide spread machlokes this caused ?  He's probably losing more sleep over that than anything else and doesnt want to cause anything like this again.
Honestly, the uproar and ensuing machlokes is really disheartening.

[snagger]

Do you see what wide spread machlokes this caused ?  He's probably losing more sleep over that than anything else and doesnt want to cause anything like this again.
Honestly, the uproar and ensuing machlokes is really disheartening.

+100