Energy Plus Master Thread

[clear thinker]

Have you compared alot

Yes they're the (one of the) best for a variable rate if you want to lock yourself in a contract then you can find better rates.

[Deal Guy]

I have them currently on my electricity they're pricing is not bad.
And I don't think it's a scam, though I think it is kind of MLM but I think they all are.

Anyone know anything about ambit? Is it a scam? Mlm? Someone is bugging me about it

Ambit is fine if you are on the guaranteed Savings plan

[lunatic]

Ambit is fine if you are on the guaranteed Savings plan

They only guarantee vs your local utility... Doesn't mean definitely saving

[Deal Guy]

They only guarantee vs your local utility... Doesn't mean definitely saving

that's good enough.

[skyguy918]

Ambit is fine if you are on the guaranteed Savings plan

So how does it work? Do I have to keep track of whether my local utility is cheaper and bug them for a check, or is it automatic?

[lunatic]

that's good enough.

-1. Not for a DDFer

[Deal Guy]

So how does it work? Do I have to keep track of whether my local utility is cheaper and bug them for a check, or is it automatic?

it takes a few months after the year is up, but it should be automatic.

[henche]

They only guarantee vs your local utility... Doesn't mean definitely saving

What does that mean--only vs your local utility?  Isn't that your other option? So if they'll guarantee you won't pay more than you would have with your local utility, doesn't that mean you are guaranteed at least to break even (minus the time value of money)?

Or is their chap that they still get an interest free loan from you for a year?

[Achas Veachas]

What does that mean--only vs your local utility?  Isn't that your other option?

They guarantee it only vs your local utility. Not vs any other ESCOs.

[henche]

They guarantee it only vs your local utility. Not vs any other ESCOs.

I'm ok with that.  I don't actually believe that any ESCO is cheaper than the local utility, so I'd be good enough with guaranteed savings vs the local utility. Although, I'd like a guaranteed IRR on the amount I'm overpaying every month until the annual refund also, equal to at least the amount I pay on my debt plus a risk factor in case Ambit disappears before paying my refund.

I'd also like to see any ESCO give me a breakdown of their cost vs local utility for my area, for the past year, including all fees.  The fact that they won't offer that is in my opinion a bigger red flag than the fact that they're an MLM. 

Comcast is my main cable provider, and RCN competes by stuffing mailboxes with flyers with their rates.  Meanwhile NSTAR is my main electric provider and all the ESCO's can do is have old acquaintances from yeshiva promise theoretical savings and suggestions that I should become a seller myself.

[skyguy918]

I'm ok with that.  I don't actually believe that any ESCO is cheaper than the local utility, so I'd be good enough with guaranteed savings vs the local utility. Although, I'd like a guaranteed IRR on the amount I'm overpaying every month until the annual refund also, equal to at least the amount I pay on my debt plus a risk factor in case Ambit disappears before paying my refund.

I'd also like to see any ESCO give me a breakdown of their cost vs local utility for my area, for the past year, including all fees.  The fact that they won't offer that is in my opinion a bigger red flag than the fact that they're an MLM. 

Comcast is my main cable provider, and RCN competes by stuffing mailboxes with flyers with their rates.  Meanwhile NSTAR is my main electric provider and all the ESCO's can do is have old acquaintances from yeshiva promise theoretical savings and suggestions that I should become a seller myself.

In NYC, ConEd actually pushes you towards the ESCO's.

[henche]

In NYC, ConEd actually pushes you towards the ESCO's.

tell me more

[lunatic]

tell me more

What's wrong you don't think ambit is legit

[skyguy918]

tell me more

For starters, they maintain this website (http://www.poweryourway.com/) to help people choose an ESCO.

On every bill, under your supply charges, they print this (similar thing under the gas supply section):

Your total electricity supply cost for this bill is 15.3¢ per Wh.
You can compare this price with those offered by energy
services companies (ESCOs). For a list of ESCOs, visit
www.PowerYourWay.com or call 1-800-780-2884

They also have a program called PowerMove, though I'm not 100% sure it's still active:

PowerMove

PowerMove is a program offered by ConEd to encourage you to switch to an ESCO. With this program you get a 7% discount off the ConEd supply rate for the first two months. After the first two months, you are then charged the regular (non-discounted) supply rate of the ESCO of your choosing. Thus, you are guaranteed savings for the first two months compared to what you would pay had you not switched. After the first two months, savings may not be guaranteed. To get the discount, you must apply through PowerMove, either by calling them at 1-877-MOVE-234 or through the PowerYourWay website (click the PowerMove link on the right side). Do not sign up directly with an ESCO or you may not receive the discount! (If you accidently sign up directly with an ESCO, you may still be able to call ConEd and try to correct the situation.)

With both PowerYourWay and PowerMove, they don't charge the 4% sales tax on the delivery portion of your bill.

An advantage of using the PowerMove program is that there are no signup, cancellation, or switching charges at any time (or at least for the first year). If you sign up with an ESCO directly, they may charge a singup or cancellation fee.

Having said all that, I found this (no longer maintained) website that basically says over the long run ConEd is cheaper than the ESCO's.

[henche]

For starters, they maintain this website (http://www.poweryourway.com/) to help people choose an ESCO.

On every bill, under your supply charges, they print this (similar thing under the gas supply section):
They also have a program called PowerMove, though I'm not 100% sure it's still active:
Having said all that, I found this (no longer maintained) website that basically says over the long run ConEd is cheaper than the ESCO's.

Fascinating.

So either ConEd is required to do all that, or they actually make more by charging the ESCO's fees than by selling you electricity directly. 

[skyguy918]

Fascinating.

So either ConEd is required to do all that, or they actually make more by charging the ESCO's fees than by selling you electricity directly.

My inclination is toward the former option, though I can't find anything online to support that claim. My reasoning is that when you switch to an ESCO, the only thing that changes on your bill is the supply charge. The delivery charge, and all other fees, appear to stay the same. ConEd themselves appear to have an ESCO as well - http://www.conedsolutions.com/Home.aspx.

[henche]

My inclination is toward the former option, though I can't find anything online to support that claim. My reasoning is that when you switch to an ESCO, the only thing that changes on your bill is the supply charge. The delivery charge, and all other fees, appear to stay the same. ConEd themselves appear to have an ESCO as well - http://www.conedsolutions.com/Home.aspx.

ConEd has their own ESCO?  That's a good one. 

So is ConEd's supply charge capped by some regulator, but the ESCO's aren't?

[skyguy918]

ConEd has their own ESCO?  That's a good one. 

So is ConEd's supply charge capped by some regulator, but the ESCO's aren't?

I believe that's the idea. the NYPSC regulates them. Check out this NYPSC link I just stumbled upon, seems to the best resource I've found so far in explaining the whole concept.

[henche]

I believe that's the idea. the NYPSC regulates them. Check out this NYPSC link I just stumbled upon, seems to the best resource I've found so far in explaining the whole concept.

So IOW, ConEd thinks its a good deal for them to sell electricity unfettered by the price controls.  Since my interests are directly misaligned with ConEd, I think I should choose the opposite.

[aygart]

As a commercial energy broker I do not deal with residential accounts outside of JCPL and therefore cannot give information specific to residential accounts, but I will write my experiences regarding some of the points mentioned.

• Ambit can be OK but only if you are on their guaranteed saving plan for the exact period needed to get the guarantee. The way the guarantee works is that the price can be more or less than the default price over the term but they will reimburse you at the end if you remained with them for the entire term. If you leave before you will not get a termination charge but will also not get the savings. If you stay past the term it will not be included in the guarantee (possibly if you renew the guarantee-don't know) Even then, the savings are paltry at 1-3% depending on the zone. In JCPL that will save you $0.002/kWh. Members of my groups are saving as much as a full penny.
• In NJ it is easy to know whether or not you will save since the default price is mostly fixed with a summer and winter rate and only one component which changes usually within a range of 0.004. JCPL and PSEG rates are more or less known until June 2016.
• In NY it is much more complicated. ConEd's price is based on the real-time and day-ahead markets which have different prices for every hour of every day. This makes their pricing very volatile with some hours reaching close to a dollar (!) per kWh and some reaching near zero. Since the prices change so frequently the rate on a bill will change based on when the meter is read. This structure will cause prices to spike during periods of high demand such as very hot or cold days which is likely to be when you are using more too. When using an ESCO the main thing you will get from it is stability if you choose a fixed rate. I am unfamiliar with available ConEd residential rates and do not know whether they are likewly to save money over the long run, but right now the energy futures market is near a low point.
• ConEd's default price is not capped by regulators-it just has a set formula how to calculate based on the market. It can go and has gone above .20/kWh.
• I am not (yet) active in MA but I am under the impression that Nstar (now Eversource) changes their default pricing every 3 to 6 months. Right now over the winter the pricing is high due to transmission constraints (you can thank the environmentalists for that) and will likely moderate over the summer.
• In NY you will save the sales tax on the delivery portion by switching to an ESCO.
• ConEd does own an ESCO in an unaffiliated division. The NYPSC ensures that they their ESCO does not receive an advantage by being owned by the same parent.