Author Topic: Should I Change My Itinerary?  (Read 8697 times)

Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #105 on: March 14, 2016, 08:08:12 PM »
Wrong.

And, no one is saying the 50K it would cost him is worthless.

Neither is anyone saying that "Dan's additional miles are not worth less to him than yours are to you"

Offline AJK

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #106 on: March 14, 2016, 08:10:26 PM »
Lol, I'll give you a pass on this one, because you obviously haven't been reading our conversations.

I'd guess most people would agree with me that you're the one who needs the pass.

Neither is anyone saying that "Dan's additional miles are not worth less to him than yours are to you"

Uhm, really?

I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less.

Many economists would dispute your marginal utility analysis.

Wrong.

There is a diminishing value to points, and that value becomes correspondingly smaller the larger the balance one has.

(In fact, many people would argue there is a diminishing utility even to cold, hard $$$. e.g. One will work very hard for his first million, but will work less hard for his 1,000th million.)

BINGO! Marginal utility applies to both.

Consider a rich man deciding whether to "splurge" an extra $1 on a luxury vs. non-luxury brand. The fact that the same $1 is worth more to a homeless guy looking for subway fare won't factor into the rich-man's decision because the marginal utility of $1 to him is less than the same $1 to the homeless guy.
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Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #107 on: March 14, 2016, 08:10:42 PM »
Because it's the only thing it *could* mean based on your posts refusal to acknowledge a (what I thought was rathr simple) economic law.

I never refused to acknowledged an economic principle.

Offline David Smith

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #108 on: March 14, 2016, 08:12:13 PM »
Wrong.

And, no one is saying the 50K it would cost him is worthless.
If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Dan

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #109 on: March 14, 2016, 08:12:35 PM »
Other factor at play here is that as a 1K, I probably value my miles far more than anyone here.
IN space, fully refundable, upgradeable, etc, etc...
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #110 on: March 14, 2016, 08:13:04 PM »
I'd guess most people would agree with me that you're the one who needs the pass.

Uhm, really?

Thanks for skipping my post where I said I didn't know that Dan doesn't sell his points. If it weren't for that, the size of his balance would make little difference on his valuation. And from that point onward, you continued to disagree with my assertions that the points have *a* value

Offline AJK

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #111 on: March 14, 2016, 08:16:26 PM »
If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.

Uhm, welcome aboard.

That *is* what I'm saying (if I'm understanding you correctly).

The entire conversation was spawned by EJB's mistaken assertion that:

Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less.

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Offline AJK

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #112 on: March 14, 2016, 08:17:14 PM »
Thanks for skipping my post where I said I didn't know that Dan doesn't sell his points. If it weren't for that, the size of his balance would make little difference on his valuation. And from that point onward, you continued to disagree with my assertions that the points have *a* value

Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #113 on: March 14, 2016, 08:18:54 PM »
Uhm, welcome aboard.

That *is* what I'm saying (if I'm understanding your correctly).

The entire conversation was spawned by EJB's mistaken assertion that:

AJK, please re-read the thread in its entirety starting from that post. Because I've found at least 3 instances where you respond to something entirely different from what I wrote.

Offline David Smith

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #114 on: March 14, 2016, 08:19:37 PM »
Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.

If 50k UA is going for $600, than it can't be worth less than $600 to you.
What you can say is that $600 to me is worth more than $600 to you, and apply your cited economic law to back that up.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #115 on: March 14, 2016, 08:20:36 PM »
Again, if he *did* sell points, the same law applies to cold, hard, cash.

I'm valuing the points in terms of those same dollars. If the dollars are worth 10% less, so are the points.

Offline AJK

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #116 on: March 14, 2016, 08:22:42 PM »
AJK, please re-read the thread in its entirety starting from that post. Because I've found at least 3 instances where you respond to something entirely different from what I wrote.

No, thanks. I've proved my point.



Oiy, and off the rails you go again.

$600 is worth $600. No one is disputing that. But $600 is worth less to a billionaire than to someone with $4, ergo, 100K UA is worth less to someone will 100MM UA than someone like EJB with 50K. Notice what I did NOT say: $600 is worth... $16.

Perhaps eliteflyer, or someone else who understands the principle, can explain it better than I apparently am.

Now it's back to work for me.
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Offline David Smith

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #117 on: March 14, 2016, 08:25:47 PM »
No, thanks. I've proved my point.

Oiy, and off the rails you go again.

$600 is worth $600. No one is disputing that. But $600 is worth less to a billionaire than to someone with $4, ergo, 100K UA is worth less to someone will 100MM UA than someone like EJB with 50K. Notice what I did NOT say: $600 is worth... $16.

Perhaps eliteflyer, or someone else who understands the principle, can explain it better than I apparently am.

Now it's back to work for me.
That's exactly what I said. I thought I was pretty clear about that. Someone else said
Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Ergel

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #118 on: March 14, 2016, 08:28:22 PM »
I told him this precisely.

But, hey, the longer he waits, the more likely someone else books the space and then he'll have made a decision by default, through inaction.
As a wise band once said "if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice" (one of the great lyrics of all time)
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline EJB

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Re: Should I Change My Itinerary?
« Reply #119 on: March 14, 2016, 08:32:25 PM »
Ok, I'll do the work for you

Here's a summary: My main point was that Dan's points have a value. I made a side statement that the fact that he has a lot of points does not diminish the value of his points. I conceded that the side point wasn't  true after AJK pointed out that Dan doesn't sell his points. I think AJK would disagree with the side point even if Dan were to sell his points, but he hasn't brought any justification for that.

I hate when people make statements like this. Just because Dan has a lot of points doesn't mean each individual point is worth less. 52.5k points is still 52.5k points. If Dan values them at $700, the question is if the LH flight is worth more than 7 hours away from home + an extra fligth + $700. For AJK, I'd imagine the answer would be yes. For most people, I'd imagine the answer would be no. For Dan, that's up to him to decide.


Wrong.
Your analysis begs two questions: 1) Miles are the same as dollars (they are not) and 2) Dan sells miles (he does not).

All of that would impact the value he places on his points, not whether the points have a value that should be considered here. Maybe for me it's 1.4, for Dan it's 1.1, and for you it's 0.5. They still have a value.

Didn't know he doesn't sell. Regardless, he still places a value on his points, and 52.5k points is still likely several hundred bucks.

Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00 reveals that you continue to overlook basic economic theory.

I dare you to find one economist that would agree with your opinion that 52.5k of Dan's UA miles should be worth $0.00 to him. You won't find any. Because it is simply untrue.

Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.

Wonderful straw man argument. Nice try.

Nowhere did I say Dan's miles are worth $0.00.

I said his 50K are worth less to him than your 50K are to you.

Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility. GIYF.

I agree with that. I disagree that they have no value, which you seem to believe.

For that to be the case, it would have to be impossible for a person to consume his miles given his earn rate and consumption rate. I don't think that's the case for Dan.

And thanks for the Economics 101 lesson. I'm well past that.

By all means, please point me to where I said miles have no value. You continue to say it, but fail to substantiate it.

And, as for being well past Economics 101, your posts belie that assertion. Sorry, actions posts speak louder than words claims.

Let's assume UR points can be redeemed instantly at a penny each in one point increments. Let's also assume that Dan has 100 million UR points. Explain how his points can be worth to him less than $1 million. And explain with words, not with meaningless statements about how "this post demonstrates that you lack an understanding of basic economics."

@EJB,

If you think that quote means that I think UA miles are worthless, you're less worthy of this debate than I thought :P

Contrary to your mistaken misinterpretation, "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" does not mean I think UA miles are worthless.

"Your insistence that UA miles are worth something more than $0.00" means "Your insistence that UA miles are worth something [how much you value them in in excess of $0 I don't know]"

The point, which went whoosh, was that notwithstanding UA miles are worth some number, that number is less for him than it is for you, which I made pretty clear.

If your point was just that they can be worth different amounts for different people, you should have just said that you agree with me. I agreed to that after you said that he doesn't sell his points. Yet, you still disagreed with my arguments that they have some value. That's why I interpreted that unclear statement of yours to mean that UR points have no value.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 08:41:57 PM by EJB »