Author Topic: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes  (Read 235011 times)

Offline gozalim

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2016, 02:09:31 PM »
Did you read the article?
1. Erate is setup to provide funding for communications and computer infrastructure, including networks,phone systems and internet.
2. The most expensive items are wiring and setting up networks. This typically happens at the school board level, with significant cost savings for the individual schools.
3. Private schools are eligible, but since each one is run independently, the costs are high, because there is no economy of scale.
4. Most yeshiva students don't use the internet in class, but their schools certainly do use communication infrastructure. The forward article showed no evidence that erate  funds were not being used for communications infrastructure in Lakewood's schools.
5. The inference was, however, "Gosh, there are so darn many of them that they are eating up all our money, and those awful troglodytes won't even use Google!"

forward clearly has an axe to grind. As usual. In their books the crime is indeed just being Frum.

If all that was done was installing phone lines instead of computers, by the forward 's own description an allowed use,  I doubt anyone will go to jail.

Let's hope there was nothing shadier going on...

Offline David Smith

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2016, 02:12:06 PM »
That's a valid opinion, but then those who believe that shouldn't take money for providing Internet service to children.
Who said the money was for providing internet service to the children? Did you read the law?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline Aaaron

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2016, 02:15:17 PM »

Let's hope there was nothing shadier going on...

That's one thing I think we can all agree on. 

Offline sky121

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2016, 02:37:15 PM »
I'm not commenting on this situation specifically.  I don't want anyone to suffer more than they have to. At the same time you hope people learn their listen. Hopefully no one wants their fellow Jew, or father, child etc to suffer.  The problem with these stories sometimes  is that these are the people who often make themselves to be holier than thou and then turn around and do things like this either believing it's OK or just cheating outright.   So it's understandable how someone could react with really wanting them to get what's coming to them. I'm not saying its right. Just that emotionally I could understand that.


And let's be honest, there are plenty of Jewish organizations doing things they shouldn't be. And making themselves the authority on what's good and right for you or your child or community etc and then doing things like this.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline yuneeq

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2016, 02:44:24 PM »
So now we're never allowed to criticize a Jew or it makes you self-hating?  Grow up, kids.  We're not perfect.

No, there's a proper way to criticize people that are close to you, people that are have constantly been persecuted by other nations and don't need any help.

He already has a reputation for his views and that's why I wrote it about him and not anyone else.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2016, 02:45:40 PM »
If you read the actual article, they aren't alleging fraud at all. Just that the circumstances of Lakewood's yeshivas make running networks, which are an allowed use of the program, very expensive.
The tone of the article is the real problem.
It's clear that they'd rather the yeshiva community simply not exist.
In essence, the crime is simply being frum.

What I meant is that the article/news was obviously going to spark an investigation and it did.
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Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2016, 02:50:17 PM »
I'm not commenting on this situation specifically.  I don't want anyone to suffer more than they have to. At the same time you hope people learn their listen. Hopefully no one wants their fellow Jew, or father, child etc to suffer.  The problem with these stories sometimes  is that these are the people who often make themselves to be holier than thou and then turn around and do things like this either believing it's OK or just cheating outright.   So it's understandable how someone could react with really wanting them to get what's coming to them. I'm not saying its right. Just that emotionally I could understand that.


And let's be honest, there are plenty of Jewish organizations doing things they shouldn't be. And making themselves the authority on what's good and right for you or your child or community etc and then doing things like this.

Sky's right. And in fact the reflexive "self hating Jew" accusations does our community a disservice.  We all know that the frum world has a fraud problem. Anyone who has been through the system knows it.  So we can admit it and deal with it or we can be in denial and call people names.  Unfortunately I fear that these won't be the last FBI raids nor the last families that lose their fathers to prison in our community.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2016, 02:54:12 PM »
No, there's a proper way to criticize people that are close to you, people that are have constantly been persecuted by other nations and don't need any help.

He already has a reputation for his views and that's why I wrote it about him and not anyone else.

Meh. There's nothing wrong with hoping that people who do wrong things don't get away with them. Based on your preconceived notions you are turning that into something it's not. And I understand that we all feel PTSD from all the generations of persecution but for goodness sake, don't take out your issues on tax payers.

Oh and calling someone a self hating Jew because you disagree with them or how they phrase something reflects more poorly on you than your intended target.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2016, 02:55:03 PM »
Sky's right. And in fact the reflexive "self hating Jew" accusations does our community a disservice.  We all know that the frum world has a fraud problem. Anyone who has been through the system knows it.  So we can admit it and deal with it or we can be in denial and call people names.  Unfortunately I fear that these won't be the last FBI raids nor the last families that lose their fathers to prison in our community.

It's ironic that you're fine with accusing still-innocent Jews for fraud and hope for maximum punishment but if anyone calls you out for your irrational (unless you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome) hatred of other Jews then it's doing the "community" a disservice.

I truly wonder what "community" you are a part of, because you definitely aren't doing anything helpful for the Jewish community with your hateful rhetoric.

Edit: I am very against any person, Jewish or not, committing fraud.
But I won't accuse them of fraud or hope they get punished based on their nationality.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 02:58:07 PM by yuneeq »
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Offline James Folsom

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2016, 03:08:58 PM »
It's ironic that you're fine with accusing still-innocent Jews for fraud and hope for maximum punishment but if anyone calls you out for your irrational (unless you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome) hatred of other Jews then it's doing the "community" a disservice.

I truly wonder what "community" you are a part of, because you definitely aren't doing anything helpful for the Jewish community with your hateful rhetoric.

Edit: I am very against any person, Jewish or not, committing fraud.
But I won't accuse them of fraud or hope they get punished based on their nationality.
Schizophrenic "ShlockDoc" Who wants to disguise himself as a Jew is a F***ed Arab, in fact you can see him on his Avatar (the person on the left)

Offline David Smith

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2016, 03:09:21 PM »
Meh. There's nothing wrong with hoping that people who do wrong things don't get away with them. Based on your preconceived notions you are turning that into something it's not. And I understand that we all feel PTSD from all the generations of persecution but for goodness sake, don't take out your issues on tax payers.

Oh and calling someone a self hating Jew because you disagree with them or how they phrase something reflects more poorly on you than your intended target.
Can I ask you who did anything wrong? Please clearly delineate the wrongdoings.

I feel your pain for those poor taxpayers, who are paying thousands less per child than public school would cost them.

Calling someone who feels the need to dedicate himself to exposing and prosecuting fraud in the Jewish world, whether or not it exists, a self hating Jew, reflects almost as badly as calling someone PTSD for asking you to be objective.

How's Shmarya Rosenberg's campaign to help fight hunger and poverty going? I don't see many ads in the Forward about that.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline David Smith

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2016, 03:10:15 PM »
Schizophrenic "ShlockDoc" Who wants to disguise himself as a Jew is a F***ed Arab, in fact you can see him on his Avatar (the person on the left)
Both of those people in his avatar are Jewish.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2016, 03:35:37 PM »
Schizophrenic "ShlockDoc" Who wants to disguise himself as a Jew is a F***ed Arab, in fact you can see him on his Avatar (the person on the left)

Wow, you created an account just to insult me. Talk about disguises. 

Offline grodnoking

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2016, 03:43:21 PM »
Schizophrenic "ShlockDoc" Who wants to disguise himself as a Jew is a F***ed Arab, in fact you can see him on his Avatar (the person on the left)
Are you the governor, or the guy who has 26 counts of illegal activity against him?
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline chevron

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2016, 03:52:52 PM »
As a frum jew you hold yourself to a high moral standard, its worse if what was done was supposedly to help jewish education while breaking the law. Thats what bothers me at least.

BTW I heard that Mayer Lansky offered Rabbi Korf of Florida a lot of $, Rabbi Korf supposedly replied that he doesnt want his duirty money, if true, I respect it

Offline dovy2

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #75 on: March 17, 2016, 04:00:06 PM »
I wonder if this was a result of the pro-secular-studies group

Offline Aaaron

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #76 on: March 17, 2016, 04:01:35 PM »
I wonder if this was a result of the pro-secular-studies group

Were these chassidish schools or just basic yeshivish?  Often there's a whistelblower's reward so we may find out.

Offline zale

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #77 on: March 17, 2016, 07:56:55 PM »
The Frum world needs to learn how to run organizations and raise families without resorting to shady tactics. Until and unless that happens, the fraud will continue.

Instilling proper values in children would be a great start.

Offline Centro

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2016, 08:00:12 PM »


The Frum world needs to learn how to run organizations and raise families without resorting to shady tactics. Until and unless that happens, the fraud will continue.

Instilling proper values in children would be a great start.

What about the non frum? They're ok cause they're not under the radar?

Online PlatinumGuy

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2016, 08:01:12 PM »
The Frum world needs to learn how to run organizations and raise families without resorting to shady tactics. Until and unless that happens, the fraud will continue.

Instilling proper values in children would be a great start.

There are plenty of organizations that submit to full external audits.  I wouldn't be so sure that as a proportion of non-profits there is more fraud in the Jewish world
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים