FBI Raids Orthodox Homes

[aygart]

Ok - vindicated.

You probably see me regularly. I thought you knew who I am.

[theblakdavid]

Two main reasons.
a) virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim immersed in  the poisonous permissive college atmosphere. 
b) Bitul Torah. - one is not required to spend 4 quality years studying for an easier earning potential needed after marriage.

+1000. You a philly guy?

[aygart]

b) Bitul Torah. - one is not required to spend 4 quality years studying for an easier earning potential needed after marriage.

If those are the reasons then there are easy answers.
A) so go to one like Touro or maybe YU
B) Even if, according to your reasoning above it is melamdo listus? Just go to one of the part day abreviated programs like in Ner Yisroel etc...

[David Smith]

I'm not sure what your problem is..  You a Philly guy by any chance?

You just seem to be on my case the last few weeks for no reason..

Why Philly? Where did that come in?

[David Smith]

If those are the reasons then there are easy answers.
A) so go to one like Touro or maybe YU
B) Even if, according to your reasoning above it is melamdo listus? Just go to one of the part day abreviated programs like in Ner Yisroel etc...

Can we NOT get into this?

[churnbabychurn]

Even if, according to your reasoning above it is melamdo listus?

I just added the gemoroh as an extra source to my argument that being a hustlers can lead to fraud.

I am explicitly not calling for us to close the yeshivos CV and go to college.
I'm simply explaining why the fraud triangle actually does exist amongst us.

To the contrary, given the circumstances it is amazing how Ehrlich the average frum business person is.

[ShlockDoc]

Two main reasons.
a) virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim immersed in  the poisonous permissive college atmosphere. 
b) Bitul Torah. - one is not required to spend 4 quality years studying for an easier earning potential needed after marriage.

Both valid points.  Have there been proposals for a system that could allow for classes to be offered part time in the yeshiva itself to solve for both points?   Getting an education could potentially solve so many problems and those two issues seem solvable.  Has there been any internal pressure toward something?

[churnbabychurn]

Why Philly? Where did that come in?

Can we NOT get into this?

[srap]

Can we NOT get into this?

or just open a separate thread for "College or  not"

[aygart]

Both valid points.  Have there been proposals for a system that could allow for classes to be offered part time in the yeshiva itself to solve for both points?   Getting an education could potentially solve so many problems and those two issues seem solvable.  Has there been any internal pressure toward something?

I can tell you that in Lakewood there are many initiatives to offer courses to kollel men to enable them to find decent paying jobs.

[aygart]

+1

[David Smith]

Both valid points.  Have there been proposals for a system that could allow for classes to be offered part time in the yeshiva itself to solve for both points?   Getting an education could potentially solve so many problems and those two issues seem solvable.  Has there been any internal pressure toward something?

In E'Y this problem is much more prevalent. In America, the Chareidi society is definitely not as well educated as the MO society (which is way above America's average), but I don't know that they're necessarily lower than the average American. There are plenty of certified/white collar employed chareidim.

[churnbabychurn]

Both valid points.  Have there been proposals for a system that could allow for classes to be offered part time in the yeshiva itself to solve for both points?   Getting an education could potentially solve so many problems and those two issues seem solvable.  Has there been any internal pressure toward something?

Yeah. Hundreds of Bmg students take a quick college accounting course (through agudas yisroel) later on in life - when crunch time comes. This situation was unprecedented years ago..

[churnbabychurn]

If those are the reasons then there are easy answers.
A) so go to one like Touro or maybe YU
B) Even if, according to your reasoning above it is melamdo listus? Just go to one of the part day abreviated programs like in Ner Yisroel etc...

A) really don't want to get into this.. but let's just say I'm not cool with hashkofa at YU..

[dealfinder85]

A) really don't want to get into this.. but let's just say I'm not cool with hashkofa at YU..

we can tell

[srap]

before you say another word would you please stop your pathetic invoking of the Holocaust,

 you lose all you're legitimacy when you do that.

-1  One must always learn from history, especially his own, otherwise he is a fool.  The students were immediately marched out of the classrooms, many without coats, shivering in the cold weather, herded together in their multitudes.  Shock, trauma, commands, no answers, 'bullying' in the name of the law.  They are victims,  probably scarred for life.  Teachers, too.

[ShlockDoc]

Yeah. Hundreds of Bmg students take a quick college accounting course (through agudas yisroel) later on in life - when crunch time comes. This situation was unprecedented years ago..

Thanks. Sounds like a very promising step.  Is there push-back in the community or is the program accepted and likely to expand?  There's no reason everyone shouldn't be educated as long as it doesn't put them in a secular college environment, right?

[skyguy918]

Yeah. Hundreds of Bmg students take a quick college accounting course (through agudas yisroel) later on in life - when crunch time comes. This situation was unprecedented years ago..

You think it's so different even on a percent basis?

[aygart]

A) really don't want to get into this.. but let's just say I'm not cool with hashkofa at YU..

I understand that and that is why I wrote maybe, but my point was that there are options available without sitting on the college campusesw.

[aygart]

Thanks. Sounds like a very promising step.  Is there push-back in the community or is the program accepted and likely to expand?  There's no reason everyone shouldn't be educated as long as it doesn't put them in a secular college environment, right?

The program is very accepted and BMG is accommodating to it. It has expanded past that already. There have been courses going numerous other routes as well including but not limited to actuarial and programming.

I can tell you that in Lakewood there are many initiatives to offer courses to kollel men to enable them to find decent paying jobs.