Author Topic: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes  (Read 234898 times)

Offline Sport

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #160 on: March 25, 2016, 03:34:02 PM »


Two main reasons.
a) virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim immersed in  the poisonous permissive college atmosphere. 

I believe its a lot more difficult in the secular work place. Mainly due to leaving the confines of yeshivah. That may explain why its still a foreign concept to some to join secular firms. Imo, yeshivahs need to do more to equip their talmidim with the ability to remain erlich even outside of the 4 walls of the beis medrash.
Thanks. Sounds like a very promising step.  Is there push-back in the community or is the program accepted and likely to expand?  There's no reason everyone shouldn't be educated as long as it doesn't put them in a secular college environment, right?


Maybe, but a) it's not like an accounting career automatically means a comfortable parnassah.. It does lend job security, but can't be compared to a real profession like a dr, lawyer, dentist, engineer etc.-  So not everyone is clamoring for it.
b) even this is frowned upon by many families and circles. Just having a job in a big non Jewish firm is also a pretty foreign concept here...


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #161 on: March 25, 2016, 04:12:23 PM »
I believe its a lot more difficult in the secular work place. Mainly due to leaving the confines of yeshivah. That may explain why its still a foreign concept to some to join secular firms. Imo, yeshivahs need to do more to equip their talmidim with the ability to remain erlich even outside of the 4 walls of the beis medrash.
There is no indoctrination in the workplace.
It is important though to maintain social barriers though IMHO. On this note, I believe it is easier to maintain these barriers at work than in school.

Offline Sport

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #162 on: March 25, 2016, 04:16:06 PM »
There is no indoctrination in the workplace.
It is important though to maintain social barriers though IMHO. On this note, I believe it is easier to maintain these barriers at work than in school.
Oh there sure is, its just a lot more subtle.
And its not just social barriers I'm reffering to, its maintaining the level of avodah in all aspects of their life that was present when in yeshivah.

Offline hachover

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #163 on: March 25, 2016, 05:12:09 PM »
Two main reasons.
a) virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim immersed in  the poisonous permissive college atmosphere. 
b) Bitul Torah. - one is not required to spend 4 quality years studying for an easier earning potential needed after marriage.

I disagree with a) unless you are only referring to full time college living on campus. I went to a commuter college and there was very little challenge to remain ehrlich. I went to class, I went home. No fraternizing unless I wanted to. No "goyishe concepts" that caused any revelations. Easy enough to go in there with the attitude of do what I need to do and learn what i need to learn and zeh hu.

I agree with the person who said the workplace is more difficult, especially if you are ambitious, since fraternizing is fundamental to getting ahead.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #164 on: March 25, 2016, 05:21:18 PM »
Oh there sure is, its just a lot more subtle.
And its not just social barriers I'm reffering to, its maintaining the level of avodah in all aspects of their life that was present when in yeshivah.
There are benei aliya in yeshiva and benei aliya who work.

On the flip side, There are some yeshiva guys who are not exactly shteiging...


Offline Yehuda25

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Offline CS1

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #166 on: March 26, 2016, 10:29:30 PM »
http://forward.com/news/336916/second-fbi-probe-of-orthodox-yeshivas-eyeing-school-lunch-fraud/?attribution=articles-article-listing-1-headline

i'm sure that the schools are serving the food. The question is if the schools are charging some of the parents for lunch? (Or, possibly if the families that claim that they qualify for free lunch, perhaps are not qualified?)
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Offline beeweegee

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #167 on: March 26, 2016, 10:44:54 PM »
There are benei aliya in yeshiva and benei aliya who work.

On the flip side, There are some yeshiva guys who are not exactly shteiging...
You know what else there are? Bnei aliya in college. Not saying it's easy, but for you to say that it is "virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim"? That's inaccurate.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2016, 10:47:52 PM »
You know what else there are? Bnei aliya in college. Not saying it's easy, but for you to say that it is "virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim"? That's inaccurate.
Fwiu the content of many of the lectures is diametrically opposed to hashkafas hatorah. Please cmiiw.


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2016, 10:49:14 PM »
i'm sure that the schools are serving the food. The question is if the schools are charging some of the parents for lunch? (Or, possibly if the families that claim that they qualify for free lunch, perhaps are not qualified?)
Or are they serving a $1 lunch cream cheese sandwich, and billing for meat, potatoes and vegetables...

Offline CS1

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2016, 11:01:02 PM »
Or are they serving a $1 lunch cream cheese sandwich, and billing for meat, potatoes and vegetables...

good point. probably provide all the needed foods, but maybe higher costs. They have to pay the kitchen staff.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #171 on: March 26, 2016, 11:15:56 PM »
Also may affect many heimisheh CPA's if they rubber stamp the audits..

Offline beeweegee

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #172 on: March 26, 2016, 11:35:33 PM »
Fwiu the content of many of the lectures is diametrically opposed to hashkafas hatorah. Please cmiiw.
While that is absolutely correct, the prevalence certainly depends on the field of study. Although even in fields that do involve quite a bit of content that may be keneged daas/hashkafas hatorah, one can still go into it with a proper mindset, a very serious connection to rebbeim and rabbanim, and still remain both a yarei shamayim and a ben aliyah. Again, no one said it's easy, but it is certainly possible, and I know many people who fall in this category (I'm sure you do too).

Offline hachover

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #173 on: March 27, 2016, 01:34:53 AM »
Fwiu the content of many of the lectures is diametrically opposed to hashkafas hatorah. Please cmiiw.

So what? Are you the type of person who can't listen to something that he doesn't believe? Most people with a healthy mind can absorb alternative viewpoints and understand that the torah way is different. I'm sure that some people are too weak minded and should not go to college, or ride the subway for that matter, but the other 99% can handle it.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline gozalim

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #174 on: March 27, 2016, 04:19:44 AM »
Also may affect many heimisheh CPA's if they rubber stamp the audits..
Also means more info to many ppls 'true' hachnasos now that the books have access to the non-books books v'dal

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #175 on: March 27, 2016, 08:56:47 AM »
So what? Are you the type of person who can't listen to something that he doesn't believe? Most people with a healthy mind can absorb alternative viewpoints and understand that the torah way is different. I'm sure that some people are too weak minded and should not go to college, or ride the subway for that matter, but the other 99% can handle it.
I am that type.

Offline EJB

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #176 on: March 27, 2016, 09:11:55 AM »
Two main reasons.
a) virtually impossible to remain a ehrlicheh yorei shomayim immersed in  the poisonous permissive college atmosphere. 
b) Bitul Torah. - one is not required to spend 4 quality years studying for an easier earning potential needed after marriage.

Not sure you understand the meaning of "bitul torah." Also, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Many lakewooders forego night seder to get a degree but continue to learn with as much quality during the remaining sedarim. It's a challenge, sure, but l'fum tza'arah agrah

Offline EJB

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #177 on: March 27, 2016, 09:12:48 AM »
So what? Are you the type of person who can't listen to something that he doesn't believe? Most people with a healthy mind can absorb alternative viewpoints and understand that the torah way is different. I'm sure that some people are too weak minded and should not go to college, or ride the subway for that matter, but the other 99% can handle it.

Or go on the internet, even with the strongest filter

Offline beeweegee

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #178 on: March 27, 2016, 10:43:50 AM »
I am that type.
Perhaps. Nothing wrong with that. But to say it is "virtually impossible" to remain a yorei shamayim and ben aliyah is, again, inaccurate and a projection of your own (using your own word) "type". Again, I want to be clear - I have nothing against the shitta against college for those who don't require it or don't think that they would remain a good Torah Jew if they attended college. But I also respect those who go for the right reasons with the backing of Daas Torah.

Offline hachover

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #179 on: March 27, 2016, 09:02:32 PM »
I am that type.

Good that you know yourself. But most people are not that type.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.