Author Topic: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes (Read 237246 times)

No he didn't. That's according to those that viewed the video , and the child.

The only evidence that something happened is the video, and there is no evidence in the video. No one came forward or anything like that as far as anyone knows.

CS1 · « **Reply #204 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:16:14 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 04:59:05 PM

No he didn't. That's according to those that viewed the video , and the child.

The only evidence that something happened is the video, and there is no evidence in the video. No one came forward or anything like that as far as anyone knows.

many red flags in the video. The boy may have been pressured that worse would happen if he spoke up about the facts, therefore no evidence will be provided by him.

However, the longer unedited video show worse evidence, apparently. I did not see that full 15 min segment.

Aaaron · « **Reply #205 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:17:25 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 04:59:05 PM

No he didn't. That's according to those that viewed the video , and the child.

The only evidence that something happened is the video, and there is no evidence in the video. No one came forward or anything like that as far as anyone knows.

Did you see the videos? Repeatedly kissing a restrained boy on the face isn't abuse? Shaking him while he's being held in between the guy's legs for 15 minutes while his arms are immobilized? Even if it's not sexual abuse, it's seemingly abuse.

Criminal or not, the guy should not be around children, and UTA's letter in response is reprehensible.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #206 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:38:34 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on May 12, 2016, 05:17:25 PM

Did you see the videos? Repeatedly kissing a restrained boy on the face isn't abuse? Shaking him while he's being held in between the guy's legs for 15 minutes while his arms are immobilized? Even if it's not sexual abuse, it's seemingly abuse.

Criminal or not, the guy should not be around children, and UTA's letter in response is reprehensible.

I found no evidence of kissing, I'm not saying that the situation wasn't weird, however, there is nothing criminal in there.

I'm not defending the principles Behavior, but you're obviously repeating allegations you read in the media.

The only evidence is the video, and the video does NOT show kissing.

Aaaron · « **Reply #207 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:53:07 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 05:38:34 PM

I found no evidence of kissing, I'm not saying that the situation wasn't weird, however, there is nothing criminal in there.

I'm not defending the principles Behavior, but you're obviously repeating allegations you read in the media.

The only evidence is the video, and the video does NOT show kissing.

Are we talking about the same video? The 15 minute one? Certainly looked like two faces touching to me.

Do you think he should retain his position?

thejerseyguy · « **Reply #208 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:55:47 PM »

Just curiousity why would the fbi be involved in this abuse (assuming it was abuse). Usually they only get juristiction if there
is email involved which they can call interstate commerce.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #209 on:** May 12, 2016, 05:56:03 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on May 12, 2016, 05:53:07 PM

Are we talking about the same video? The 15 minute one? Certainly looked like two faces touching to me.

Do you think he should retain his position?

Appears? That's not evidence.

If he should retain his position? Butt out.

Let his community judge him , they are the ones that know him and they are the ones that know the kid.

The community has lots of enemies, and those enemies are seeking to destroy them.

Let them take care of their own garbage.

Aaaron · « **Reply #210 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:04:41 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 05:56:03 PM

Appears? That's not evidence.

If he should retain his position? Butt out.

Let his community judge him , they are the ones that know him and they are the ones that know the kid.

The community has lots of enemies, and those enemies are seeking to destroy them.

Let them take care of their own garbage.

Wow. That's a really scary mentality you have. Anywhere else in the normative world, when someone in a position of authority is being investigated for child abuse they're removed from their position pending a resolution.

Should even one kid get abused because he maintains access to children it's completely on people like you with the "let them police their own" mentality, which has worked so well in the past /sarcasm.

churnbabychurn · « **Reply #211 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:12:25 PM »

I watched the video. No sexual abuse.

The video clearly shows a weird, loving, physical, act of satmar chinuch.

For non chassidim, who are not used to such an emotionally engaged chinuch, this can seem so strange that it must be something criminal or sexual..
For me, I just shook my head.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #212 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:20:10 PM »

Quote from: Aaaron on May 12, 2016, 06:04:41 PM

Wow. That's a really scary mentality you have. Anywhere else in the normative world, when someone in a position of authority is being investigated for child abuse they're removed from their position pending a resolution.

Should even one kid get abused because he maintains access to children it's completely on people like you with the "let them police their own" mentality, which has worked so well in the past /sarcasm.

I see where you're coming from, you appear not to be familiar with the Chareidi culture.

All your information comes from the media comma the difference between you and myself is that you accept the position of the media while I don't accept it lying down.

As a human being, I made the same mistake as you when I read about it, however , once I watched the video up close I realized that I was duped.

On the other hand, it appears that you are more than happy to believe allegation.

And what investigation are you talking about? Who came forward? As far as I know the investigation was being launched due to the leaked video.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #213 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:20:46 PM »

Quote from: churnbabychurn on May 12, 2016, 06:12:25 PM

I watched the video. No sexual abuse.

The video clearly shows a weird, loving, physical, act of satmar chinuch.

For non chassidim, who are not used to such an emotionally engaged chinuch, this can seem so strange that it must be something criminal or sexual..
For me, I just shook my head.

Exactly, people like @Aaron will never comprehend such Behavior, yet will be quick to judge.

And that's exactly why he wasn't removed from his position.

EJB · « **Reply #214 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:29:14 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 06:20:46 PM

Exactly, people like @Aaron will never comprehend such Behavior, yet will be quick to judge.

And that's exactly why he wasn't removed from his position.

"Culture" isn't a good defense in court. They might think it's normal, but if the court believes evidence demonstrates abuse (you think it doesn't, others think it does), the fact that it's a "normal satmar behavior" is a reason to investigate more of their schools.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #215 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:32:18 PM »

Quote from: EJB on May 12, 2016, 06:29:14 PM

"Culture" isn't a good defense in court. They might think it's normal, but if the court believes evidence demonstrates abuse (you think it doesn't, others think it does), the fact that it's a "normal satmar behavior" is a reason to investigate more of their schools.

The video won't prove the principal guilty in court either, due to no evidence.

Hershelsdeals · « **Reply #216 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:33:59 PM »

I'm leaving this conversation immediately.

This will just go around in circles, never ending

sillypainter · « **Reply #217 on:** May 12, 2016, 06:46:37 PM »

For THIS SPECIFIC principal it is a normal behaviour. He is the MOST LOVING person on earth, he talks to a 3 year old with the MOST UTMOST respect and love, whenever he talks you can see the love in his eyes, you need to know him to understand what I am talking about, and NO I am NOT his talmud, I just observed him many times, and I admire this person tremendously, so I don't care what you see on the video....It is NOT the full context, you need to actually hear what he is saying to the child.... That alone, that this loyal principal has 40 years of chinuch under his belt and he has a ZERO complaint record and they keep him on his post eventhough he does NOT adhere fully to the Aroiny fraction speaks for itself.

All those haters, keep on hating, nothing will change your minds!

sharkky · « **Reply #218 on:** May 12, 2016, 07:41:17 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 05:56:03 PM

Let them take care of their own garbage.

Pipe dream

Aaaron · « **Reply #219 on:** May 12, 2016, 08:21:45 PM »

Quote from: Hershelsdeals on May 12, 2016, 06:20:10 PM

I see where you're coming from, you appear not to be familiar with the Chareidi culture.

All your information comes from the media comma the difference between you and myself is that you accept the position of the media while I don't accept it lying down.

As a human being, I made the same mistake as you when I read about it, however , once I watched the video up close I realized that I was duped.

On the other hand, it appears that you are more than happy to believe allegation.

And what investigation are you talking about? Who came forward? As far as I know the investigation was being launched due to the leaked video.

I actually haven't seen anything in the media about this. The first I heard of it was when someone posted the UTA letter and the 15 min. video in a local Facebook group. Yes, the video shows the Principal displaying - IMO - inappropriate behavior. Obviously the police agree as they're now investigating. And yes, pending an investigation the subject should be removed from his post.

And about my experience; not that it should be relevant, but I am very familiar with Charedi culture, having gone to Yeshivish yeshivas and most of my friends are learning in Lakewood. But again, it's irrelevant.

The fact that you think Satmar can or will take care of these types of issues on its own speaks volumes.