Author Topic: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes  (Read 100852 times)

Offline jye

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #480 on: June 28, 2017, 09:23:31 AM »
At least some of these families have special needs children. Is this what they were after?

Offline zale

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #481 on: June 28, 2017, 09:25:42 AM »
I see there are a lot of very righteous members of DDF.

Life is not binary. Life is not black and white. The vast majority of people who apply for benefits while earning more than allowable are doing so because they are desperate. They earn too much to be eligible for benefits, and at the same time do not earn enough to survive. DH, whether you like it or not, said it exactly right. Maybe he shouldn't have aired the dirty laundry of the community, but what he said is true.

I'm curious how many people here that פארקויפן זייער מיילס report it as income. I'm curious how many people here ליגענען וועגן זייער פרנסה to get approved for credit cards.

I'm not G-D forbid saying it's justified. It's not. But those who live in a glass house...
 

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #482 on: June 28, 2017, 09:26:53 AM »
I would say -1 but I'll give you benefit of the doubt that you meant "falsely" claiming. What I was referring to is stretching definitions of religious income, claiming your wife and baby mama of 8 is just your girlfriend, or putting things in other people's name's so it's not "your income". I thought legal vehicles were being abused. The surprise to me (and I don't live in Lakewood so maybe I was just naive) here is that even by the letter of the law there has been massive illegal activity apparently.
A bunch of your examples are against actual laws, not just spirit. Putting income to others, and getting married religiously but not civiliy are both illegal. The marriage thing, however, might only be illegal for the officiant, not the couple.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #483 on: June 28, 2017, 09:32:16 AM »
A bunch of your examples are against actual laws, not just spirit. Putting income to others, and getting married religiously but not civiliy are both illegal. The marriage thing, however, might only be illegal for the officiant, not the couple.
I hear where you are coming from - but I think there is grey area depending on the type of occupation and income we are talking about. Or at least I thought so.

Offline aygart

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #484 on: June 28, 2017, 09:36:03 AM »
he shouldn't have aired the dirty laundry of the community
This.

Just to get into the newspaper again. Who is he?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #485 on: June 28, 2017, 09:43:32 AM »
I see there are a lot of very righteous members of DDF.

Life is not binary. Life is not black and white. The vast majority of people who apply for benefits while earning more than allowable are doing so because they are desperate. They earn too much to be eligible for benefits, and at the same time do not earn enough to survive. DH, whether you like it or not, said it exactly right. Maybe he shouldn't have aired the dirty laundry of the community, but what he said is true.

I'm curious how many people here that פארקויפן זייער מיילס report it as income. I'm curious how many people here ליגענען וועגן זייער פרנסה to get approved for credit cards.

I'm not G-D forbid saying it's justified. It's not. But those who live in a glass house...

Bad comparison. None of the " crimes" you mention would ever makes the papers if discovered.

Offline zale

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #486 on: June 28, 2017, 09:47:11 AM »
Bad comparison. None of the " crimes" you mention would ever makes the papers if discovered.

Who cares what would or wouldn't make the papers? Everyone here is obsessed with the term "illegal". First check to make sure you are not doing anything illegal, then move on to judge others.

Besides, if there was a large scale investigation into those above-mentioned things, and it was discovered that millions traded hands, it most certainly would make the papers.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #487 on: June 28, 2017, 09:48:50 AM »
Who cares what would or wouldn't make the papers? Everyone here is obsessed with the term "illegal". First check to make sure you are not doing anything illegal, then move on to judge others.

Besides, if there was a large scale investigation into those above-mentioned things, and it was discovered that millions traded hands, it most certainly would make the papers.

The point is Chillul Hashem.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #488 on: June 28, 2017, 09:49:46 AM »
Bad comparison. None of the " crimes" you mention would ever makes the papers if discovered.
I wasn't aware there were special dispensations in Halacha that would allow stealing, lying, Chillul Hashem, and not following Dina DeMalchusa Dina because it was difficult.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #489 on: June 28, 2017, 09:51:51 AM »
I wasn't aware there were special dispensations in Halacha that would allow stealing, lying, Chillul Hashem, and not following Dina DeMalchusa Dina because it was difficult.

No one said there is. Just one is guaranteed to make the papers and the other is not. One is guaranteed to make a Chilul Hashem and the other is not.

Offline Toasted

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #490 on: June 28, 2017, 09:52:26 AM »
At least some of these families have special needs children. Is this what they were after?
Yes. This way they have much larger benefits from medicaid so they can allege these millions stolen. In reality, getting medicaid illegally should be counted as the value of the insurance coverage which is max 20-30k a year, but the feds count the actual medicaid claims paid out.

Offline zale

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #491 on: June 28, 2017, 09:55:05 AM »
Yes. This way they have much larger benefits from medicaid so they can allege these millions stolen. In reality, getting medicaid illegally should be counted as the value of the insurance coverage which is max 20-30k a year, but the feds count the actual medicaid claims paid out.

Not only that, but they combine all the people they arrested and report a collective amount of benefits stolen. It's purely to make headlines and make the crime look deeper and darker than it is.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #492 on: June 28, 2017, 09:55:54 AM »
Yes. This way they have much larger benefits from medicaid so they can allege these millions stolen. In reality, getting medicaid illegally should be counted as the value of the insurance coverage which is max 20-30k a year, but the feds count the actual medicaid claims paid out.
-1 the state paid out the money.

Offline theduke

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #493 on: June 28, 2017, 09:58:57 AM »
I see there are a lot of very righteous members of DDF.

Life is not binary. Life is not black and white. The vast majority of people who apply for benefits while earning more than allowable are doing so because they are desperate. They earn too much to be eligible for benefits, and at the same time do not earn enough to survive. DH, whether you like it or not, said it exactly right. Maybe he shouldn't have aired the dirty laundry of the community, but what he said is true.

I'm curious how many people here that פארקויפן זייער מיילס report it as income. I'm curious how many people here ליגענען וועגן זייער פרנסה to get approved for credit cards.

I'm not G-D forbid saying it's justified. It's not. But those who live in a glass house...
Selling miles may not necessarily be a taxable event. The IRS has been dealing with this for years and so far earning miles for a cc sign up is nontaxable, so if you are selling nontaxable miles in exchange for cash one can argue it is just an exchange in kind and would not trigger any taxes.

Offline Dawie

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Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #494 on: June 28, 2017, 09:59:27 AM »
I would say -1 but I'll give you benefit of the doubt that you meant "falsely" claiming. What I was referring to is stretching definitions of religious income, claiming your wife and baby mama of 8 is just your girlfriend, or putting things in other people's name's so it's not "your income". I thought legal vehicles were being abused. The surprise to me (and I don't live in Lakewood so maybe I was just naive) here is that even by the letter of the law there has been massive illegal activity apparently.
iv'e been doing working with lower income people for 20 years and have never seen this once in lakewood (splitting the household claiming two sets of programs)
Maybe i'm naive, or just blind
I see it in Newark, Camden, Jersey City and NYC everyday
and frankly i think the commentators in the APP and the like are trying to perpetuate this blood libel