Author Topic: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes  (Read 234984 times)

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1424
  • Total likes: 374
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #540 on: June 28, 2017, 11:46:49 AM »
2 cents: there's a mindset in town that 'justifies' such behavior. 1) the enormous expense of a Jewish lifestyle vs. A non Jew 2) the taxes being paid for the benefits of those not contributing at all wether it's the benefits of large families that get hundreds of thousands simply bec they choose to learn and not work or the public school system (most student come from families not contributing at all to townships bottom line).....It's very lopsided. Middle class is desperate. Obviously it's illegal.

It's time for the government to start issuing private school vouchers. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would be a good start.

Offline yr

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 150
  • Total likes: 30
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #541 on: June 28, 2017, 11:56:47 AM »
BS. They benefited illegally from Medicaid. Lets just say that medicaid had to pay for Insurance $10k per year. THIS is what they benefited illegally. Why the hell should they be charged with what the Hospital costed the Insurance company.  The Insurance policy to itself was fine. Maybe they should be charged with what the mother cooked for supper? Since its because of the medicaid that she was able to be taken care of in the Hospital, and because of the Hospital she was able to return home early, so she has to pay for everything she was able to do for the time she was home because of the Hospitals care??

I don't remember all the details but someone I know who was involved in a much smaller case, had to pay a fine plus the premiums for continuing on medicaid. He didn't have to pay actual benefits. Although in the vast majority of cases, premiums exceed benefits, unless there was a hospitalization  (which I guess is common for women in their 20's and 30's).

In that case there was no FBI or anything. I think it was just the programs' agencies themselves. It was in New York.

Offline yoohoo

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 1336
  • Total likes: 179
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #542 on: June 28, 2017, 12:03:52 PM »
It's time for the government to start issuing private school vouchers. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would be a good start.
or for everyone to go to public school

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17404
  • Total likes: 14342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #543 on: June 28, 2017, 12:08:23 PM »
It's time for the government to start issuing private school vouchers. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would be a good start.
It is the governments responsibility to fx this?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Hjay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 1345
  • Total likes: 93
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #544 on: June 28, 2017, 12:11:02 PM »
My grandfather had numerous conversations with R' Aharon Kotler ZTL about how the numbers would add up for kollel yungeleit. The way things are being done now have zero relation at all to R' Aharon's vision. R' Aharon had the numbers worked out. Part of his cheshbon included BMG not looking the way it does now.
Mind elaborating?

Offline Yehuda25

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 6069
  • Total likes: 78
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #545 on: June 28, 2017, 12:12:25 PM »
Mind elaborating?
he's referring to the lavish lifestyle I assume
“To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.”


― Aristotle

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #546 on: June 28, 2017, 12:12:31 PM »
Look, they know the rules when they sign up. If you want to live in a nice house, while learning in Kollel with a large family, and sending everyone to private school, obviously there's going to be a gap between income and expenses. That's not a chiddush. Work on changing laws for benefits, not lying to fit in to the system.

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 83
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #547 on: June 28, 2017, 12:15:18 PM »
Look, they know the rules when they sign up. If you want to live in a nice house, while learning in Kollel with a large family, and sending everyone to private school, obviously there's going to be a gap between income and expenses. That's not a chiddush. Work on changing laws for benefits, not lying to fit in to the system.
And in the meantime?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67601
  • Total likes: 16913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #548 on: June 28, 2017, 12:16:01 PM »
And in the meantime?
Find a city with tuition vouchers that aren't income based?
Find a job and make time for learning?

Either are better than going to jail and having someone else raise your kids...this should be a wake-up call.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 83
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #549 on: June 28, 2017, 12:18:04 PM »
Find a city with tuition vouchers that aren't income based?
Find a job and make time for learning?

Either are better than going to jail and having someone else raise your kids...
When 10s of 1000s of families move there it will become income based pretty fast.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17404
  • Total likes: 14342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #550 on: June 28, 2017, 12:18:08 PM »
Mind elaborating?
he's referring to the lavish lifestyle I assume
The lavish lifestyle is a given and does not require a conversation with R' Aharon. His vision did not include kollel yungeleit living off a bare pittance of a kollel check. He understood that to have a larger payout it would mean fewer yungeliet as well as more torahdike balei batim supporting them (percentage wise). Those are the basics of it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 83
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #551 on: June 28, 2017, 12:21:46 PM »
The lavish lifestyle is a given and does not require a conversation with R' Aharon. His vision did not include kollel yungeleit living off a bare pittance of a kollel check. He understood that to have a larger payout it would mean fewer yungeliet as well as more torahdike balei batim supporting them (percentage wise). Those are the basics of it.
You can't complain that too many ppl are in kollel. That's definitely not what R' Aaron would do.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10481
  • Total likes: 3836
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #552 on: June 28, 2017, 12:24:15 PM »
You can't complain that too many ppl are in kollel. That's definitely not what R' Aaron would do.
Really? You are mistaken.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67601
  • Total likes: 16913
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #553 on: June 28, 2017, 12:24:40 PM »
When 10s of 1000s of families move there it will become income based pretty fast.
There are hundreds of families that have moved to CLE just this year.
Housing prices are up 20-50% since the vouchers started a few years ago. School enrollment is also up by unprecedented numbers.
We'll see what gives first.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17404
  • Total likes: 14342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #554 on: June 28, 2017, 12:24:49 PM »
You can't complain that too many ppl are in kollel. That's definitely not what R' Aaron would do.
I am not, my poin is simply that R' Aharon did NOT feel that there should be people in kollel with no cheshbon of how to make the numbers work. If you can get the numbers to work then great but they need to.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yoohoo

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 1336
  • Total likes: 179
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #555 on: June 28, 2017, 12:27:18 PM »
Find a city with tuition vouchers that aren't income based?
Find a job and make time for learning?

Either are better than going to jail and having someone else raise your kids...this should be a wake-up call.
its the learning people that dont have the issue. They very well fall within the brackets for benefits. A kollel guy that goes to work to make 60k or whatever it is.....you may have to give up on 100k worth of benifits....

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #556 on: June 28, 2017, 12:27:52 PM »
If the only way to make your lifestyle work is to lie and cheat, you're a criminal, not a tzaddik.

Offline smart man

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 289
  • Total likes: 83
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #557 on: June 28, 2017, 12:28:00 PM »
Really? You are mistaken.
How so?

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #558 on: June 28, 2017, 12:28:51 PM »
I'm not talking about someone who occasionally lies, or is more or less following the law but takes some money off the books periodically. I'm talking about a deliberate plan to take 10s of thousands in benefits over many years. There's also a difference between a Shev V'Al Taaseh of not reporting something vs. A Kum V'Asieh of filling out forms that are knowingly wrong.

Offline jackofall

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 772
  • Total likes: 45
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: FBI Raids Orthodox Homes and Businesses in Monsey and KJ
« Reply #559 on: June 28, 2017, 12:29:35 PM »
its the learning people that dont have the issue. They very well fall within the brackets for benefits.
It is the learning people that have these issues. It's just that it's is during the transition out of Kollel when the problem start.
There needs to be a process/direction for people to wean themselves off the programs etc.
If you focus on being a boss, you will never be a leader. Leaders lead people to growth and improvement.