Author Topic: Books on torah from a outside point  (Read 7237 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 12:16:05 AM »
I like the fact that he brings my attention to a lot of sources, but someone who has no idea how to learn should not take his word what the sources actually say as he sometimes misreads them, and also draws wrong conclusions. See this book review for many examples.
https://www.ou.org/jewish_action/06/2007/the_thirteen_principles_of_rambam/

IE if you don't have a strong learning background better not to read.

I have not read either of these books, but I outlined my issue with the insiders books on judaism. Often poorly researched, bad prose, linguistics, total lack of historical broad context outside immediate subject topic etc

In short these books generally reflect a pre disposed hashkafa direction of the publisher... the author is inherently writing to fit a publishers agenda.. its like getting your news on Israel from the NYT

Offline Tzafnas Paneach

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2016, 12:23:00 AM »
I have this in my amazon cart and im confused, on the one hand the preview has kosher sources but he's written some strange stuff too

http://www.amazon.com/Stabilization-Rabbinic-Culture-C-E-350/dp/0195387740?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2PTFCA406K9UV
I am sorry I know nothing about him, or most academic sources. However, just because something quotes "kosher" sources means nothing. Academics misunderstand them all the time and even if they understand them correctly they draw false conclusions from them based on their biases. Also, just taking a quick look at the book he has a "haskama" from someone who has written kaferia.

Again, you should not be reading this stuff. If you don't know Hebrew there is so much available now in English from sources that are not dangerous. Start with artscroll you already can spend a life time going through shaas bavli and yarushalmi and medrash translations.

Anyway, good night. Popcorn thread is getting too excited...

Offline chevron

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2016, 12:29:11 AM »
Not sure why you are so quick to condemn stuff as kefira and resort to artscroll as the only alternative. How about Geonica ?

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2016, 01:09:34 AM »
I have this in my amazon cart and im confused, on the one hand the preview has kosher sources but he's written some strange stuff too

http://www.amazon.com/Stabilization-Rabbinic-Culture-C-E-350/dp/0195387740?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2PTFCA406K9UV
Don't know about the book, but the link is definitely absolutely treif.



P.S. Here's the kosher version:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195387740/?tag=cl03f-20
 ;)

Offline Tzafnas Paneach

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2016, 01:18:50 AM »
Don't know about the book, but the link is definitely absolutely treif.



P.S. Here's the kosher version:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195387740/?tag=cl03f-20
 ;)
Ha. Not sure Dan would want referral money from a product that potentially has kafira ;)

Offline Work-for-ur-muny

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2016, 01:21:43 AM »
Ha. Not sure Dan would want referral money from a product that potentially has kafira ;)
With this thread, you never know. It may be a source for a substantial sum of $$$$...

Offline chevron

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2016, 01:23:27 AM »
Ha. Not sure Dan would want referral money from a product that potentially has kafira ;)

You just look at a book and decide because its not artscroll or feldheim or lo aleinu he has a secular name that its potentially kefira ?

So I should go burn my translation of pesikta d'rav kahane because we dont like william braude's name or the publisher ?

It would help if people had some kind of knowledge in this

Offline Baruch

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2016, 09:10:15 AM »

 the formulation of rabbanic judasim.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. But there was no formulation of Rabbinic Judiasm. Torah shel Baal Peh was given on Sinai.

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2016, 10:46:42 AM »
have you read this yet?


epistle of rabbi shrira gaon
^^^

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2016, 12:19:04 PM »
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. But there was no formulation of Rabbinic Judiasm. Torah shel Baal Peh was given on Sinai.

Yayn stam is a tosefite ruling
Kitniyot ?

Or tefillah b'tzibur ? Krias hatorah?

This is all formulation of Rabbinic Halachik Judaism, I use the term that is common for the rabbinate vs karaite era

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2016, 12:22:02 PM »
have you read this yet?


epistle of rabbi shrira gaon

No and thanks for pointing it out to me, im curious about the style of writing and translation, I wish they would offer a preview but i'll buy it any ways and http://www.amazon.com/Legal-Methodology-Hai-Gaon/dp/0891307486/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459441174&sr=1-1&keywords=hai+gaon


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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2016, 12:40:42 PM »
The thread title is "Books on torah from a outside point"

I didnt say Books on torah from a outside perspective.. I agree with Rabbi Benny Lau that all too often current works of historical basis are too limited, focused on a micro scale rather than macro, they utalize few outside soures and often follow a set hashkafic belief and are not always written best.

I have no patience to lengthy dry tomes that are poorly researched and badly written..

I have history of the jewish people from yavneh to pumbia by mesorah and #1 its fairly boring #2 it focuses on micro events that have only to do with the jewish subjects at hand.

I like something more along the lines of www.amazon.com/Geonim-Babylonia-Shaping-Medieval-Culture/dp/030018932X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459442160&sr=1-

Haym Soloveitchik has written extensively and there are other writers, the real question of my thread is to find authors and books that are "kosher" in that what they write is not heresy or lies or just ignorant i.e. Fishman, Neusner, Halivni


heres a book im interested in www.amazon.com/Byzantine-Jewry-Mediterranean-Economy-Joshua/dp/0521856337/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459442027&sr=1-12

www.amazon.com/Rashi-Littman-Library-Jewish-Civilization/dp/1906764611/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459442366&sr=1-3

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Offline somefield

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2016, 02:41:35 PM »
Wow  did you open this thread to show how much you've already read?  ::)      jk vry impressive  8)

Do you hav an opinion on Marc B Shapiro?   changing the immutable sounds interesting
Ditto on Marc Shapiro.
Also try reaching out to Rabbi Yechiel Goldhaber he can point you in the direction of what to stay away from.

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2016, 02:59:06 PM »
Ditto on Marc Shapiro.
Also try reaching out to Rabbi Yechiel Goldhaber he can point you in the direction of what to stay away from.

I read some of seforim blogspot... and they call m a heretic here ;)

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2016, 04:16:04 PM »
I read some of seforim blogspot... and they call m a heretic here ;)
Unfortunately they seem to throw that moniker around frequently. See the Tamar Epstein thread  :'(

Offline gozalim

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2016, 11:10:01 PM »
ADD

Offline high end hobo

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2016, 01:54:02 AM »
Lol, re changing the Immutable.
The book is a Joke.
I thought it would actually show how Achronim pervert facts.
Instead the intro to the book brings a 2011 newspaper photo which cropped out Clinton.

His arguments against chabad.
1) the Freidiker Rebbe thought the kherson archive was genuine
2) chassidim photoshopped a Yarmukah onto the Rebbes passport photo
3) Chassdim revere the rebbe's brother even though he wasn't frum.

I believe the above in enough to demonstrate that the book is a bunch of yellow press

Offline sharkky

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 05:15:46 PM »
Lol, re changing the Immutable.
The book is a Joke.
I thought it would actually show how Achronim pervert facts.
are you kidding me?? Did you actually read the book? There are hundreds of examples




His arguments against chabad.
there are no arguments against chabad. Chabad is kind of irrelevant in the book (2 pages out of 347) he just mentions 3 instances of censorship in chabad
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 05:27:57 PM by sharkky »

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Re: Books on torah from a outside point
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2016, 12:40:53 AM »
Marc Schapiro is very respectable to chabad in "Sol lieberman and the orthodox" we can debate how they threw prior "Marraynu harav hagaon etc ari shebagolah" under the bus.

We should debate the way Rav Shaul Lieberman and others were railroaded.. its sad and I lost a lot of remaining respect to that world.

Since I made this post, I purchased over 40 books. A lot of stuff I didnt buy in past because there was no clear direction of what is kosher.