Author Topic: EL AL  (Read 134607 times)

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 9150
  • Total likes: 2400
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1305 on: October 23, 2020, 08:18:53 AM »
I flew last week on UA, and 90% of economy was chareidi, and there was BH no issues at all. The vast majority of the passengers complied with the crew and all was smooth.

I can only think of two reasons why this may have been different:
1) The crew didn't handle the situation smartly, which may have incited the passengers to just ignore the rules.
2) The more likely reason.... Last week, there weren't more than a handful of teenagers flying because the permits were only issued from the 18th. Most men were grown discipline adults, many flying with their families. This week's flights were packed with teenager students. Apparently, there needs to be more awareness made to these teenagers, about priorities in such situations. (I thought the past year taught most people a lot about priorities in yiddishkeit... But apparently some still don't understand it) Many righteous Jews daven while seated when flying. And I think most adult passengers, know how to act in a respectful manner on a flight (even the ultra-orthodox).

IINM most (all?) Halachic authorities say that one is SUPPOSED to sit while Davening on a flying airplane.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 2047
  • Total likes: 985
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1306 on: October 23, 2020, 02:09:31 PM »
IINM most (all?) Halachic authorities say that one is SUPPOSED to sit while Davening on a flying airplane.
Correct.
See Igros Moshe O"C 4 20

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 58003
  • Total likes: 5596
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1307 on: October 23, 2020, 02:27:04 PM »
Many ppl argue that this type of events, while rare, mostly happen on LY flights
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline thebudgetdeals

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 748
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1308 on: October 23, 2020, 03:25:17 PM »
Correct.
See Igros Moshe O"C 4 20
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 03:31:54 PM by thebudgetdeals »

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 9150
  • Total likes: 2400
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1309 on: October 23, 2020, 04:32:41 PM »
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....

Nobody is sitting in plane (in economy) because they're lazy. It is actually very awkward. But AFAIK it's what Halacha says one should be doing.

Can you cite a Halachic opinion that says otherwise?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 9150
  • Total likes: 2400
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1310 on: October 23, 2020, 04:33:37 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Yes.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 5631
  • Total likes: 689
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1311 on: October 23, 2020, 04:56:02 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Mostly the first, I think.
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....

Source? A simple reading of SA says you should sit.

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 140
  • Total likes: 147
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1312 on: October 23, 2020, 05:22:44 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?

Is fail to deescalate a fancy way of saying escalating due to pre-existing bias? They're often looking to pick a fight.

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 1198
  • Total likes: 56
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 30
    • View Profile
  • Location: Tel Aviv
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1313 on: October 24, 2020, 12:24:18 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?

It's likely both imho.
The same crowd behaves differently in LY vs. other airlines.

We don't have the context of this flight. It could well be that people started davening, someone took a picture, and two minutes later the crew managed to make everyone sit.

When I flew to Greece a few weeks ago on LY, the crew was extremely strict with regards to masks and to standing

Offline ae123

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1412
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1314 on: October 24, 2020, 10:39:27 PM »
Has anyone gotten a refund or voucher after filling out the form linked to here?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/el-al/el-al-opens-form-choose-refund-125-voucher-will-choose/

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 1198
  • Total likes: 56
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 30
    • View Profile
  • Location: Tel Aviv
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1315 on: October 25, 2020, 12:03:36 AM »

Offline moe8555

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Posts: 967
  • Total likes: 36
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: Virgin Atlantic Gold, Etihad Silver, IHG Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hertz 5 Star
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1316 on: October 25, 2020, 12:07:12 AM »
Has anyone gotten a refund or voucher after filling out the form linked to here?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/el-al/el-al-opens-form-choose-refund-125-voucher-will-choose/

Yes, voucher arrived within a few days.  Cash refunds may take significantly longer.

Offline ae123

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1412
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1317 on: October 25, 2020, 08:30:24 AM »
Yes, a voucher

Yes, voucher arrived within a few days.  Cash refunds may take significantly longer.

Thank you.

Offline m65

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1042
  • Total likes: 136
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: israel
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1318 on: October 25, 2020, 09:35:10 AM »
Cash refunds may take significantly longer.
any idea how long?

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 1198
  • Total likes: 56
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 30
    • View Profile
  • Location: Tel Aviv
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: EL AL
« Reply #1319 on: October 25, 2020, 11:38:20 AM »
any idea how long?
Up until now they indicated having processed all refunds for flights until end of April. And slowly slowly moving on with more recent flights