Author Topic: EL AL  (Read 652101 times)

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1740 on: October 23, 2020, 12:31:43 AM »
Best of luck to Rosenberg.

Really saddens me to see this  :'(

https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1319305348679929860?s=19

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1741 on: October 23, 2020, 12:41:15 AM »
Best of luck to Rosenberg.

Really saddens me to see this  :'(

https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1319305348679929860?s=19
As R' Asher Weiss wrote in his letter בושה תכסה ארץ
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ad120

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1742 on: October 23, 2020, 12:50:55 AM »

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1743 on: October 23, 2020, 02:22:25 AM »
My suggestion to the future CEO.

When you have a group of passengers who won't comply, you ask the pilot to land in the nearest airport, and hand those passengers to local authorities.. do that two - three times and see what happens

Offline moe8555

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1744 on: October 23, 2020, 02:48:21 AM »
My suggestion to the future CEO.

When you have a group of passengers who won't comply, you ask the pilot to land in the nearest airport, and hand those passengers to local authorities.. do that two - three times and see what happens

I would initiate a charge back were this to happen to me. (Not the landing, rather the lack of doing anything/adverse action).

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1745 on: October 23, 2020, 03:22:54 AM »
I would initiate a charge back were this to happen to me. (Not the landing, rather the lack of doing anything/adverse action).
I don't understand your point

Offline moe8555

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1746 on: October 23, 2020, 04:34:19 AM »
I don't understand your point

If I paid for a flight with certain conditions and safety/health standards, I would expect full enforcement and those standards to be met.

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1747 on: October 23, 2020, 04:40:25 AM »
If I paid for a flight with certain conditions and safety/health standards, I would expect full enforcement and those standards to be met.
Now I get it.
Agreed

Offline yandmk

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1748 on: October 23, 2020, 06:59:35 AM »
I flew last week on UA, and 90% of economy was chareidi, and there was BH no issues at all. The vast majority of the passengers complied with the crew and all was smooth.

I can only think of two reasons why this may have been different:
1) The crew didn't handle the situation smartly, which may have incited the passengers to just ignore the rules.
2) The more likely reason.... Last week, there weren't more than a handful of teenagers flying because the permits were only issued from the 18th. Most men were grown discipline adults, many flying with their families. This week's flights were packed with teenager students. Apparently, there needs to be more awareness made to these teenagers, about priorities in such situations. (I thought the past year taught most people a lot about priorities in yiddishkeit... But apparently some still don't understand it) Many righteous Jews daven while seated when flying. And I think most adult passengers, know how to act in a respectful manner on a flight (even the ultra-orthodox).

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1749 on: October 23, 2020, 08:03:07 AM »
I flew last week on UA
Many ppl argue that this type of events, while rare, mostly happen on LY flights

Offline ExGingi

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1750 on: October 23, 2020, 08:18:53 AM »
I flew last week on UA, and 90% of economy was chareidi, and there was BH no issues at all. The vast majority of the passengers complied with the crew and all was smooth.

I can only think of two reasons why this may have been different:
1) The crew didn't handle the situation smartly, which may have incited the passengers to just ignore the rules.
2) The more likely reason.... Last week, there weren't more than a handful of teenagers flying because the permits were only issued from the 18th. Most men were grown discipline adults, many flying with their families. This week's flights were packed with teenager students. Apparently, there needs to be more awareness made to these teenagers, about priorities in such situations. (I thought the past year taught most people a lot about priorities in yiddishkeit... But apparently some still don't understand it) Many righteous Jews daven while seated when flying. And I think most adult passengers, know how to act in a respectful manner on a flight (even the ultra-orthodox).

IINM most (all?) Halachic authorities say that one is SUPPOSED to sit while Davening on a flying airplane.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1751 on: October 23, 2020, 02:09:31 PM »
IINM most (all?) Halachic authorities say that one is SUPPOSED to sit while Davening on a flying airplane.
Correct.
See Igros Moshe O"C 4 20

Offline Dan

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1752 on: October 23, 2020, 02:27:04 PM »
Many ppl argue that this type of events, while rare, mostly happen on LY flights
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline TBD

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1753 on: October 23, 2020, 03:25:17 PM »
Correct.
See Igros Moshe O"C 4 20
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 03:31:54 PM by thebudgetdeals »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1754 on: October 23, 2020, 04:32:41 PM »
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....

Nobody is sitting in plane (in economy) because they're lazy. It is actually very awkward. But AFAIK it's what Halacha says one should be doing.

Can you cite a Halachic opinion that says otherwise?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1755 on: October 23, 2020, 04:33:37 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Yes.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1756 on: October 23, 2020, 04:56:02 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?
Mostly the first, I think.
THis is MOST or ALL????? :-\

I came back after sukkes with United with family, (was 70% empty)and they announced on Mic that the front kitchen section is empty whoever wants to pray, can pray there.....
There are defintley situations that some poskim said that need to daven while sitting, but it's not a blank check because someone is lazy to stand, to daven while sitting if the conditions allow it.

Like the stewards on the plane who know to say to chareidi... Rav Vozner said to daven while seated and need to put on Mask because of Venishmartem.....

Source? A simple reading of SA says you should sit.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1757 on: October 23, 2020, 05:22:44 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?

Is fail to deescalate a fancy way of saying escalating due to pre-existing bias? They're often looking to pick a fight.

Offline tavster

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1758 on: October 24, 2020, 12:24:18 PM »
Do the passengers self select LY or does the LY crew fail to deescalate?

It's likely both imho.
The same crowd behaves differently in LY vs. other airlines.

We don't have the context of this flight. It could well be that people started davening, someone took a picture, and two minutes later the crew managed to make everyone sit.

When I flew to Greece a few weeks ago on LY, the crew was extremely strict with regards to masks and to standing

Offline ae123

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Re: EL AL
« Reply #1759 on: October 24, 2020, 10:39:27 PM »
Has anyone gotten a refund or voucher after filling out the form linked to here?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/el-al/el-al-opens-form-choose-refund-125-voucher-will-choose/