Should US based couples obtain a marriage license and be legally married?

[ExGingi]

I assume that to most people around here, marriage means חופה וקידושין.

A vast majority of people obtain a marriage license and get legally married.

In quite a few situations, especially if one can control the income flow/split between the couple, such as business owners and other situations, it is financially advantageous not to be married, but rather to file as two singles, a single and head of household once there's one child, and once there are two or more children two heads of household, splitting the dependents between the couple.

Furthermore, with the way the legal system currently defines marriage, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it.

I have two family members who have followed my advice in recent years, and did not obtain a marriage license. It is working out quite well for them from a financial standpoint. They are protecting each other with life insurance, and I would suggest getting legally married closer to retirement age.

I found the financial benefits so compelling, that I researched and found out that one can get divorced in one day in NH. However, I did ask my mashpia, who advised me not to do so, saying that not getting "legally" married in the first place is different than getting "legally" divorced.

Obviously, some people must get legally married for immigration status, but if that is not an issue, how do people feel about being married בחופה וקידושין without being legally married in the eyes of state and federal law? Is there any legal or halachic problem?

[Sport]

I assume that to most people around here, marriage means חופה וקידושין.

A vast majority of people obtain a marriage license and get legally married.

In quite a few situations, especially if one can control the income flow/split between the couple, such as business owners and other situations, it is financially advantageous not to be married, but rather to file as two singles, a single and head of household once there's one child, and once there are two or more children two heads of household, splitting the dependents between the couple.

Furthermore, with the way the legal system currently defines marriage, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it.

I have two family members who have followed my advice in recent years, and did not obtain a marriage license. It is working out quite well for them from a financial standpoint. They are protecting each other with life insurance, and I would suggest getting legally married closer to retirement age.

I found the financial benefits so compelling, that I researched and found out that one can get divorced in one day in NH. However, I did ask my mashpia, who advised me not to do so, saying that not getting "legally" married in the first place is different than getting "legally" divorced.

Obviously, some people must get legally married for immigration status, but if that is not an issue, how do people feel about being married בחופה וקידושין without being legally married in the eyes of state and federal law? Is there any legal or halachic problem?

Pretty sure that's illegal.

[yochiek93]

[David Smith]

Pretty sure that's illegal.

It's illegal for me not to be married to my SO that I live with, consider my partner, and have my children with? Pretty sure such a statement is racist.

[Sport]

It's illegal for me not to be married to my SO that I live with, consider my partner, and have my children with? Pretty sure such a statement is racist.

Not racist just bigoted and judgmentalt, but if you are all the above and also married by a religious figure l then you may be violating a law.

[churnbabychurn]

Not racist just bigoted and judgmentalt, but if you are all the above and also married by a religious figure l then you may be violating a law.

Which law?

[Dan]

Which law?

Could be tax fraud.

[aygart]

Not racist just bigoted and judgmentalt, but if you are all the above and also married by a religious figure l then you may be violating a law.

So the law depends on a religious ceremony? Is that in violation of the free exercise of religion to require a license to do a religious ceremony?

[churnbabychurn]

Could be tax fraud.

Married persons.   If you are considered married, you and your spouse can file a joint return or separate returns.
Considered married.   You are considered married for the whole year if, on the last day of your tax year, you and your spouse meet any one of the following tests.
You are married and living together.

You are living together in a common law marriage recognized in the state where you now live or in the state where the common law marriage began.

You are married and living apart, but not legally separated under a decree of divorce or separate maintenance.

You are separated under an interlocutory (not final) decree of divorce.

If there are state laws that recognize a religious marriage than maybe that could be considered a common law marriage. - But I doubt it.
I cant see how this can violate tax laws.


But this makes everything not make sense ... https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-13-17.pdf

[username]

A vast majority of people obtain a marriage license and get legally married.

Most of us got a licence, which alllowed the Rabbi to perform the marriage ceremony. Most of us did not go before a judge and have a civil/legal marriage.
Not sure if it matters.

Furthermore, with the way the legal system currently defines marriage, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it.

Sounds like a strong argument.

[noturbizniss]

If you are married religiously and consider yourself married then by not getting legally married you are lying to the government about your status. You're a leech and worthless scum.

[noturbizniss]

Sounds like a strong argument.

Awesome point. The way the legal system says I have to pay taxes is completely against what I think it should be, therefore I have no obligation to pay taxes!

[Moshe123]

If you are married religiously and consider yourself married then by not getting legally married you are lying to the government about your status. You're a leech and worthless scum.

OMG

[noturbizniss]

OMG

You want to do it then that's one issue, my problem is that most people doing it are all high and mighty about how great they are and what tzaddikim they are. Whatever happened to דינא דמלכותא דינא?

[username]

Awesome point. The way the legal system says I have to pay taxes is completely against what I think it should be, therefore I have no obligation to pay taxes!

Whatever happened to דינא דמלכותא דינא?

Its not Healthcare. You arent required to get married.

[noturbizniss]

Its not Healthcare. You arent required to get married.

Your required to he honest about your marital status

[username]

Your required to he honest about your marital status

If you have a relegious ceromony, but you neglected to get a licence from the state, you are not legally married.



And if "Marriage" includes the union between two men, then I am not "Married". What I have, and the ceromony that i was part of, is not valid between two men.

[noturbizniss]

If you have a relegious ceromony, but you neglected to get a licence from the state, you are not legally married.

Yet you consider yourself married and love as married people. You tell people your married introduce each other as husband and wife. Your married and you should report as such to the government. The fact your doing it to get money from the government you wouldn't otherwise get erases all valid arguments. That's the only reason they do it. It's total bs and dishonest.

[noturbizniss]

And if "Marriage" includes the union between two men, then I am not "Married". What I have, and the ceromony that i was part of, is not valid between two men.

Keep telling yourself what you want but at the end of the day you know, while you may not admit it, that you are scamming the government and don't give a rats ass about the legal definition of marriage. If suddenly married people had taxes cut in half every one of these liars would be running to get married even if marriage included allowing a man to marry his brother.

[churnbabychurn]

Keep telling yourself what you want but at the end of the day you know, while you may not admit it, that you are scamming the government and don't give a rats ass about the legal definition of marriage. If suddenly married people had taxes cut in half every one of these liars would be running to get married even if marriage included allowing a man to marry his brother.

There is no ethical, moral, patriotic, halachic or other reason to not practice legal tax avoidance.

Helvering v. Gregory : "Any one
may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes."