Starbucks testing Cholov Yisroel in 10 stores

[aygart]

wait, chanan בשאר איסורים is optional? fill me in...

If you are a sfardi

[gozalim]

From what I understand, it only applies to open bottles of wine and uncooked meat.

-.5
see this link (referenced above).
Meat and wine need 2 seals, milk needs 1 seal (as opposed to other foods which don't need a seal specifically)

[yuneeq]

wait, chanan בשאר איסורים is optional? fill me in...

You may want to check out the Mechabers shitta all over SH"A.

[gozalim]

You may want to check out the Mechabers shitta all over SH"A.

duh. my question is who pasken's that way today. aygart answered. outside that circle, most of us would be horrified to find peanut butter in our pesach cookies

[skyguy918]

From what I understand, it only applies to open bottles of wine and uncooked meat.

My point was that you probably have to deal with the issue for wine/meat anyway, so why should CY be any different.

[gozalim]

Does that mean if you have a CY bottle of milk in your fridge at home and you have a non-Jewish babysitter/nanny home alone, you can no longer assume the milk is CY?

possibly.
see this article http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=13590&pgnum=52
which is what set off the אור ישראל writer that started this chumra...

[yuneeq]

duh. my question is who pasken's that way today. aygart answered. outside that circle, most of us would be horrified to find peanut butter in our pesach cookies

It's not such a small circle, in the US alone you're talking about hundreds of thousands of Sephardic Jews...
And I quite clearly wrote that it depends on your customs.

Also, if your question was about who holds like Mechaber, then ask that.
Don't assume that I am a mindreader.

It's not breaking news that Sephardim typically hold like the Mcheaber.

[gozalim]

It's not such a small circle, in the US alone you're talking about hundreds of thousands of Sephardic Jews...
And I quite clearly wrote that it depends on your customs.

Also, if your question was about who holds like Mechaber, then ask that.
Don't assume that I am a mindreader.

It's not breaking news that Sephardim typically hold like the Mcheaber.

my apologies for my tone.
I wasn't sure if you were referring to sefardic communities who follow mechaber לחומרא ולקולא, or those strands of judaism who figure that if there's a tanna that allows it, let's all jump in. (not you per se, but that's the flavor sometimes in these types of discussions).

which makes it interesting how much of a role victoria dweck played in giving a platform for CRC's chashash on starbuck's...

[gozalim]

this paragraph:

The stores that will have Cholov Yisroel will not have Cholov Stam — which is ordinary milk — in order to prevent a mix up, Rabbi Holland said.

should make some difference...

[Joe4007]

Do you realize how many bottles a Starbucks goes through in an hour?

Thought we were talking about the gas station. I know they were giving people a hard time to open bottles.

[Freddie]

I don't remember the location now, but I'm pretty sure Chassidus discusses this question and comes down to איסורי דרבנן being ג קליפות הטמאות regardless of the classic דרבנן גברא או חפצא chakira.

Yep, it's right at the beginning of ch. 8 of Tanya where it discusses the g'dorim of shalos kelipos hatemeios.

ועוד זאת במאכלות אסורות שלכך נקראים בשם איסור מפני שאף מי שאכל
מאכל איסור בלא הודע לשם שמים לעבוד ה' בכח אכילה ההיא וגם פעל ועשה
 כן וקרא והתפלל בכח אכילה ההיא אין החיות שבה עולה ומתלבשת בתיבות
 התורה והתפלה כמו ההיתר מפני איסורה בידי הס"א משלש קליפות הטמאות
 'ואפי' הוא איסור דרבנן שחמורים דברי סופרים יותר מדברי תורה כו

[Yankeelight]

I think a bigger problem is that quite literally they are putting a wig on a pig, fwiu many kashrus agency's have big problems with Starbucks in general. Maybe it's just me but this kind of message flying around social media promotes going to Starbucks and thinking all is good

+1. Before anyone buys anything in a Starbucks, I suggest checking the Star-K or cRc website for which, how, and where beverages are allowed. There seems to be widespread ignorance with regard to this. I have seen frum people ordering Frappuccinos which likely have tarfus in it r"l.

[mgarfin]

Does that mean if you have a CY bottle of milk in your fridge at home and you have a non-Jewish babysitter/nanny home alone, you can no longer assume the milk is CY?

If she works for you and you are יוצא ונכנס there is מרתת

[moko]

duh. my question is who pasken's that way today. aygart answered. outside that circle, most of us would be horrified to find peanut butter in our pesach cookies

even according to Ashkenazim, there's no chanan by kitniyos

[gozalim]

even according to Ashkenazim, there's no chanan by kitniyos

ok....

[gozalim]

Just want to add that the Kashrus issues of Starbucks aren't so problematic for everyone.

Especially if you hold that there's no Chanan by Sha'ar Issurim, no Chanan by glass, nosein ta'am lifgam, and more shittos to rely on, depending on your customs.

IINM  the tatfus possibilities at Starbucks include basar bechalav,  so...

[aygart]

IINM  the tatfus possibilities at Starbucks include basar bechalav,  so...

Yes but once it becomes bosor bicholov and makes its chnan it then becomes like shar issurim according to many poskim.

[churnbabychurn]

IINM  the tatfus possibilities at Starbucks include basar bechalav,  so...

Pork and cholov akum is not necessary bbc

[yuneeq]

IINM  the tatfus possibilities at Starbucks include basar bechalav,  so...

I think it's unlikely, as they don't serve meat from behind the counter.
It's usually all prepackaged sandwiches and salads which probably come from out of store, but even if not, that drop of meat on the knife is nothing compared to the tons of dairy equipment they use every day. Also if It's pork and milk there's no problem of Chanan (acc to mechaber). More things to clarify is if the water that washes the dishes is yad soledes, if there's soap involved, if there's no shishim against the treif products and etc. My guess is that for Sephardim the biggest issue is treif being served, not so much a problem with the Keilim.

One of the things the agencies say is assur is plain coffee from the machines because it touches glass Keilim which were assur'd from Chanan. From a Sephardic perspective this chasash doesn't even start.

[gozalim]

Pork and cholov akum is not necessary bbc

pork no, but unslaughtered beef yes (and I'm pretty sure only חלב טמאה is excluded)