Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 112478 times)

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1140 on: July 24, 2019, 11:59:31 AM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1141 on: July 24, 2019, 12:08:26 PM »
Again, I think you misunderstood. The stigma of one who smokes pot as being labled a "druggy" or [insert other label here] is disappearing. Stigma in this instance is the lowering of the boundaries. Meaning one is not viewed poorly if they smoke pot regularly in our community. 


And what stigma are you referring to that is not dependent on his one?
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1142 on: July 24, 2019, 12:20:35 PM »
Mermelstein's 1:45pm.  ;D
Is that in CH? I am not allowed there.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1143 on: July 24, 2019, 12:20:55 PM »
And what stigma are you referring to that is not dependent on his one?
Today being a pothead has a certain stigma attached to it...correct? More so in the frum community...correct? When they legalize pot will it be like when we say "Oh he's an alcoholic." and everyone acknowledges it and just moves on. Or, will it still be viewed as having crossed a line that is totally unacceptable?

I think we have strayed off the reservation here. The point that I am trying to make is simple. When we lecture about drugs and we use pot as one of the drugs that we are lecturing about according to CV that is misguided. IMO it is not misguided. It may fall short of what CV is aiming for. But it definitely is not misguided. 
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1144 on: July 24, 2019, 12:23:23 PM »
Today being a pothead has a certain stigma attached to it...correct? More so in the frum community...correct? When they legalize pot will it be like when we say "Oh he's an alcoholic." and everyone acknowledges it and just moves on. Or, will it still be viewed as having crossed a line that is totally unacceptable?

I think we have strayed off the reservation here. The point that I am trying to make is simple. When we lecture about drugs and we use pot as one of the drugs that we are lecturing about according to CV that is misguided. IMO it is not misguided. It may fall short of what CV is aiming for. But it definitely is not misguided. 
What is the stigma with getting treated other than being labeled a pothead? You can't lower that stigma of being called a pothead and keep the other.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1145 on: July 24, 2019, 12:27:25 PM »
I think we have strayed off the reservation here. The point that I am trying to make is simple. When we lecture about drugs and we use pot as one of the drugs that we are lecturing about according to CV that is misguided. IMO it is not misguided. It may fall short of what CV is aiming for. But it definitely is not misguided.
If the lecture is your kids are using pot because of ABC that is fine and should be done. They you fix that by addressing ABC. If the lecture is kids are now doing pot and it is going to lead to XYZ you are going down a useless rabbit hole.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1146 on: July 24, 2019, 12:41:11 PM »
What is the stigma with getting treated other than being labeled a pothead? You can't lower that stigma of being called a pothead and keep the other.
You can be labeled a pothead without treatment.

The stigma of any treatment or therapy in our community is that you are irreparably broken. The stigma is not what the cause of your treatment was or is. The treatment or therapy itself makes you "not normal", even though the benefit of the therapy would even help "normal" people. Not everyone that goes to therapy is broken. And even if they are "broken" what level of broken is assumed.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1147 on: July 24, 2019, 12:48:33 PM »
Today being a pothead has a certain stigma attached to it...correct? More so in the frum community...correct? When they legalize pot will it be like when we say "Oh he's an alcoholic." and everyone acknowledges it and just moves on. Or, will it still be viewed as having crossed a line that is totally unacceptable?

I think we have strayed off the reservation here. The point that I am trying to make is simple. When we lecture about drugs and we use pot as one of the drugs that we are lecturing about according to CV that is misguided. IMO it is not misguided. It may fall short of what CV is aiming for. But it definitely is not misguided.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of modern marijuana use, both in and outside of "our" community. Also, our community is slightly bigger than Lakewood, just saying.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1148 on: July 24, 2019, 12:53:22 PM »
Back to the real problem...the rug isnt big enough to sweep everything under.
I don't think you realize that blaming hard drug use on pot is, in and of itself, sweeping part of the problem under the rug.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1149 on: July 24, 2019, 12:57:34 PM »
I don't think you realize that blaming hard drug use on pot is, in and of itself, sweeping part of the problem under the rug.
for sure I agree with you on this. Not blaming hard drug use on pot use alone, but for many of those in our community who have gone on to hard drugs it started with...you can fill in the blank...
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1150 on: July 24, 2019, 12:59:46 PM »
for sure I agree with you on this. Not blaming hard drug use on pot use alone, but for many of those in our community who have gone on to hard drugs it started with...you can fill in the blank...
Correlation does not imply causation. Do you honestly mean to tell me that if pot didn't exist you think the number of these people on hard drugs would be significantly less? I find that extremely hard to believe.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1151 on: July 24, 2019, 01:00:36 PM »
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of modern marijuana use, both in and outside of "our" community. Also, our community is slightly bigger than Lakewood, just saying.
Please, explain "modern marijuana use" to me. I have teenage and 20 something year old children. I think I am well aware and educated. I also volunteer my time to anti-drug abuse organizations, so please, enlighten me as to what I am missing. And for the record, I'm not in Lakewood.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1152 on: July 24, 2019, 01:02:06 PM »
Is there any solid data about the percentage of people in our community who have OD'd that started with a prescription vs people who started illegally?
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1153 on: July 24, 2019, 01:03:25 PM »
You can be labeled a pothead without treatment.

The stigma of any treatment or therapy in our community is that you are irreparably broken. The stigma is not what the cause of your treatment was or is. The treatment or therapy itself makes you "not normal", even though the benefit of the therapy would even help "normal" people. Not everyone that goes to therapy is broken. And even if they are "broken" what level of broken is assumed.
I think you are misreading things. It all boils down to the stigma of the addiction itself.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1154 on: July 24, 2019, 01:04:06 PM »
Correlation does not imply causation. Do you honestly mean to tell me that if pot didn't exist you think the number of these people on hard drugs would be significantly less? I find that extremely hard to believe.
I dont know anyone that went to heroin as a first drug of choice. Do you? I would venture a guess that the hard drug use was precipitated by recreational drug use. The ODs, for the most part, are from fentanyl laced heroin.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1155 on: July 24, 2019, 01:04:25 PM »
Please, explain "modern marijuana use" to me. I have teenage and 20 something year old children. I think I am well aware and educated. I also volunteer my time to anti-drug abuse organizations, so please, enlighten me as to what I am missing. And for the record, I'm not in Lakewood.
Modern marijuana use is fundamentally recreational and I think the majority of "frum" kids who do smoke pot do so recreationally. I could be wrong but that has been my observation across age groups, level of frumkeit and community. If anyone has any data on it I'd love to see it but I don't think that data exists or is really plausible to come by.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1156 on: July 24, 2019, 01:07:18 PM »
Is there any solid data about the percentage of people in our community who have OD'd that started with a prescription vs people who started illegally?
The vast majority are not people who started from prescription abuse. Of the the kids that died in the last month not one was from prescription abuse. 
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1157 on: July 24, 2019, 01:07:37 PM »
I dont know anyone that went to heroin as a first drug of choice. Do you? I would venture a guess that the hard drug use was precipitated by recreational drug use. The ODs, for the most part, are from fentanyl laced heroin.
Obviously, that wasn't my point, but recreational opioid use is an entirely different ballgame from recreational pot use. And yes, I'm aware of where the majority of OD's comes from but, as you said, nobody starts with fentanyl-laced heroin. If you want to solve the problem you have to pinpoint where the problem is stemming from.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1158 on: July 24, 2019, 01:08:20 PM »
The vast majority are not people who started from prescription abuse. Of the the kids that died in the last month not one was from prescription abuse.
Ok, that makes sense, I wasn't saying one way or the other, I was just wondering what the data was.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #1159 on: July 24, 2019, 01:16:23 PM »
Obviously, that wasn't my point, but recreational opioid use is an entirely different ballgame from recreational pot use. And yes, I'm aware of where the majority of OD's comes from but, as you said, nobody starts with fentanyl-laced heroin. If you want to solve the problem you have to pinpoint where the problem is stemming from.
I vote...recreational pot use as the starting point...you are free to choose your own starting point.
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