Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 115663 times)

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #800 on: July 17, 2017, 02:47:31 AM »
Rabbi YY Jacobson addresses the 'leadership' and addiction in this clip, portion at 28:00 minutes in, he says we have this year, alone 120 young women and men in the torah observant community.
It goes untl 37:00 minutes. Well worth listening to for 9 minutes.

Link: http://bit.ly/RabbiJacobsonSchoolLeadershipAddictionIssue

people worshipping the system vs. the system is there to promote life, (not as traps to promote death, he says...)
Here, Rabbi Jacobson said it was 3 things (eating in a pizza shop, buying a friend a $20 gift, and 'nivul peh', and that's why she was kicked out. They did not allow even one week to find another school. This affected her terribly.
He tells a very different story than the above letter even though both are meant to be the perspective of the parents. One wonders it it's the same story.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #801 on: July 17, 2017, 08:44:34 AM »


http://matzav.com/video-rav-shteinman-yiras-shomayim-its-gayva-gayva/

Not exactly the same case, but I'm pretty sure the "gaveh, gaveh" applies to these parents too.

Edit: here's a working link to the video
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:14:19 AM by zh cohen »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #802 on: July 17, 2017, 09:25:06 AM »
I once heard from someone who was a melamed for many years, that anyone who doesn't unconditionally love each and every child he teaches, doesn't belong in chinuch!

With that standard you might as well shut the schools down, as you won't find enough teachers...

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #803 on: July 17, 2017, 09:59:33 AM »
The story portrayed in the above letter sounds crazy and hard to believe.

To the subject of kicking kids out of schools, my heart goes out to every parent going through hard times with their kids.

But there is a second side to this subject. Do you know a kid in your child's class or on your block that is educating your child with things that are unexcepted to you? Do you have a family that is having a bad influence on your child? How do you cope with it?

Schools have a very tough job to balance bad form very bad.They have a class of 30 kids with clean neshmos and one kid starts teaching them real bad things whats the fine line they can say we cant let 30 kids down to TRY saving this one struggling kid.

It is so hard to call but there is 2 sides to the burden laying on the school.

Offline elit

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #804 on: July 17, 2017, 10:22:00 AM »
The story portrayed in the above letter sounds crazy and hard to believe.

To the subject of kicking kids out of schools, my heart goes out to every parent going through hard times with their kids.

But there is a second side to this subject. Do you know a kid in your child's class or on your block that is educating your child with things that are unexcepted to you? Do you have a family that is having a bad influence on your child? How do you cope with it?

Schools have a very tough job to balance bad form very bad.They have a class of 30 kids with clean neshmos and one kid starts teaching them real bad things whats the fine line they can say we cant let 30 kids down to TRY saving this one struggling kid.

It is so hard to call but there is 2 sides to the burden laying on the school.
moral equivalency... obviously schools have to be concerned about a bad influence but there are ways to handle it properly and ways to handle it improperly. I've seen (a rare) case of handling it properly and it doesn't look like these cases and when done properly the parents of the kicked out child will almost always understand and respect the schools decision

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #805 on: July 17, 2017, 10:36:29 AM »
Though from what I have seen in the name of various Chassidishe and Litvishe leaders, no school should kick out a child unless they have verified that the child will be accepted elsewhere.
The chazon is said that throwing out a kid is dinay nefashos... ניבא ולא ידע מה שניבא....

Today every two bit street corner (shteeble basement) pot seller is pushing heroin...
For $5 a kid can get a quick high that can addict forever.... And put him in a matzav of pikuach nefesh...

So watch the kids and don't ever kick them out onto the streets. These days it's just way too dangerous.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #806 on: July 17, 2017, 10:56:50 AM »
Today every two bit street corner (shteeble basement) pot seller is pushing heroin...
For $5 a kid can get a quick high that can addict forever....

Maybe part of the solution is to go after those who make these substances so easily accessible.

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #807 on: July 17, 2017, 11:01:08 AM »
Maybe part of the solution is to go after those who make these substances so easily accessible.
+1
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #808 on: July 17, 2017, 11:13:15 AM »
Maybe part of the solution is to go after those who make these substances so easily accessible.
Yeah. The DEA and local PD are ON IT!


Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #809 on: July 17, 2017, 11:28:29 AM »
Yeah. The DEA and local PD are ON IT!
And the mesirah police are stopping us from reporting those tbat are responsible.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #810 on: July 17, 2017, 11:42:16 AM »
The chazon is said that throwing out a kid is dinay nefashos... ניבא ולא ידע מה שניבא....
Not so sure it's a case of לא ידע.

As a matter of fact, this might not even be נבואה, but rather חכמה to see a few steps ahead.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #811 on: July 17, 2017, 11:54:53 AM »
Not so sure it's a case of לא ידע.

As a matter of fact, this might not even be נבואה, but rather חכמה to see a few steps ahead.
It was impossible to imagine the magnitude of the danger a few short years ago...

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #812 on: July 17, 2017, 11:57:22 AM »
It is impossible to imagine the magnitude of the danger today (because they dont (all) admit there is a problem, yet)
FTFY
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #813 on: July 17, 2017, 11:59:56 AM »
And the mesirah police are stopping us from reporting those tbat are responsible.
I was being kinda sarcastic. We as a community can't really get involved in the broader war on drugs.. (yes, terminating the frum drug pushers should definitely be done, but it won't necessarily save that many lives).

We do need to be made aware of the dangers of drug addiction though...

Eg. I'm sure one of the groisah roshei yeshiva who kicked out a boy a few weeks before the end of the year (for going to CVS!!) would have waited till the end of the year, preserve his dignity, and just maybe maybe saved his life... But he didn't. Assuming he didn't take the "dinay nefashos" thing literally.. wasn't aware..

Offline gozalim

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #814 on: July 17, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »
And the mesirah police are stopping us from reporting those tbat are responsible.
it should  hinestly be balanced with din rodef...

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #815 on: July 17, 2017, 01:23:11 PM »
it should  hinestly be balanced with din rodef...
Who's talking honestly here
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Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #816 on: July 17, 2017, 02:05:21 PM »
He tells a very different story than the above letter even though both are meant to be the perspective of the parents. One wonders it it's the same story.

it's possible that the second story about "yaffa" was another part of the story. i.e. the first day of school when she tried to attend the next school after she was kicked out of the first one.

I agree 100% about the concern of the influence of other children that could seep in via classmates, however this case was not including foul language, negative attitude, or intentional bullying or rebelling.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #817 on: July 17, 2017, 02:12:49 PM »
however this case was not including foul language, negative attitude, or intentional bullying or rebelling.
We don't know all the details.

However, sending a kid home with no-where to go, has been shown to be דיני נפשות time and over again!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline henche

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #818 on: July 17, 2017, 02:49:19 PM »
We don't know all the details.

However, sending a kid home with no-where to go, has been shown to be דיני נפשות time and over again!

And the schools just do it again and again, for pettier and pettier reasons. 

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #819 on: July 17, 2017, 07:44:37 PM »
The chazon is said that throwing out a kid is dinay nefashos... ניבא ולא ידע מה שניבא....

Today every two bit street corner (shteeble basement) pot seller is pushing heroin...
For $5 a kid can get a quick high that can addict forever.... And put him in a matzav of pikuach nefesh...

So watch the kids and don't ever kick them out onto the streets. These days it's just way too dangerous.

$5 to get high off heroin?
You sure they're not selling flour?