Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 213630 times)

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2016, 02:32:08 PM »
I know it is Friday but where did you get this from?

Talk to enough rabbis who see it happen

Many Rabbonim will disagree with this statement, unless it is a particular situation that cannot be dealt with by any religious therapists and the best available option is a non-religious therapist.

Offline A3

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2016, 02:35:21 PM »
Talk to enough rabbis who see it happen
If death is the alternative. I'll take option A.

Any statistics on how many go away from the community anyways. Even after seeing therapist from "within"?

Offline JTZ

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2016, 02:40:01 PM »
Talk to enough rabbis who see it happen
Many non-frum therapist work within the framework of G-d.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2016, 02:41:56 PM »
Many non-frum therapist work within the framework of G-d.
It is much harder for a non frum therapist to understand where a frum patient is coming from in order to deal with the issue properly.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2016, 02:48:15 PM »
It is much harder for a non frum therapist to understand where a frum patient is coming from in order to deal with the issue properly.
That is fair. My point is many religions recommend therapist and they work within the framework of G-d.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2016, 03:04:12 PM »
That is fair. My point is many religions recommend therapist and they work within the framework of G-d.
Sure. Also, it is one of the jobs of a therapist to work within the framework of the client, whatever it may be. That said, you'll probably do a much better job as a therapist if you share that same framework and know exactly where the client is coming from.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Offline Dan

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2016, 03:24:39 PM »
12.93 per 100,000 for general.
Now how about the hard stat? If you believe the 26 then it would seem I big divergence.

I misread that. Maybe that is inline.
There's something like 600K Orthodox Jews in the US, so statistically that would be about 78/year if the rates were the same as the general population.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:33:35 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2016, 03:28:41 PM »
There's something like 600K Orthodox Jews in the US, so statistically that would be about 78/year if the rates were the same as the general population.
However Orthodox Jews are typically younger than the general population and suicide affects young people disproportionately, so statistically you would expect it to be higher than that...
How many you think in the New York area orthodox community the article is talking about?

Don't suicide rates go up with age?
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:32:06 PM by JTZ »
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yitzf

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2016, 03:47:10 PM »
Quote
“The finger pointing is so sad,” Avi Shafran, director of public affairs for Agudath Israel of America, said in an email to The Forward. “I don’t claim to know what demons plagued Faigy, but those who do, from places outside Orthodoxy, are making very subjective, biased accusations.”

He suggested that leaving the Hasidic community may have contributed to the depression and other problems that Mayer suffered from.

“Could it, though, have been a feeling of emptiness in her secular ‘new life,’ as successful as it seemed to be?” Shafran wrote. “The finger pointers don’t want to even consider that one.”


http://forward.com/news/317900/the-brave-life-and-shocking-death-of-faigy-mayer/#ixzz4EVXoiLtW

Every death is tragic, but I would argue that we have two main connections, family and community.
Orthodox Judaism is a religious community and someone who is brought up with that sense of community and then leaves it may struggle with that loss of belonging. That's not a fault of the community.

As for family there is no excuse IMO for the family to sever that connection although some of those who leave will sever it themselves out of anger.

Offline Moshe123

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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2016, 03:49:35 PM »

Offline yitzf

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2016, 04:05:28 PM »

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2016, 04:19:41 PM »
Includes overdoses
That's clear in the article. Why is it baloney?

77 self inflicted deaths by tortured souls, some intentional, some not. Tragic.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2016, 04:23:37 PM »
Nothing to do with suicide. You can include reckless driving in that list.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2016, 04:28:43 PM »
Nothing to do with suicide. You can include reckless driving in that list.
If you think there's an important commonality between reckless driving and the other two, go ahead and include it.

I don't, so I didn't.

Offline yitzf

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2016, 04:36:29 PM »
That's clear in the article. Why is it baloney?

77 self inflicted deaths by tortured souls, some intentional, some not. Tragic.
That's not what I meant. I was explaining why such a high figure is not necessarily out of hand.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2016, 04:44:51 PM »
Hate?
If just one person decides to keep their life due to their activism then they're doing a good job.

There needs to be more awareness to deal with people having issues.
Yes.  Hate.  Even according to their statistics  of how many suicides we had in our in the past year (which I'm not convinced is true) we still have lower suicide rates than the public. Unfortunately suicide is something that always existed in all communities. Why start talking  about rape and bash our community. We are no different than other communities. We have over enough therapist and we have people going to them. Simply hating. And it's sad that they are using a tragedy for their hate purposes.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2016, 04:48:27 PM »
Way to shoot the messenger and eschew a necessary discussion.
Huh? Can you email to me what the necessary discussion besides bashing rabbanim here is? Can you explain to me where rape and sex come into the picture.  As I said suicide is nothing higher in our community. If something it's probably way lower.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2016, 04:59:08 PM »
That's not what I meant. I was explaining why such a high figure is not necessarily out of hand.
Yes, I should have responded to Moshe123.