Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 213565 times)

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #460 on: November 29, 2016, 10:38:09 PM »
Disagree.

All are welcome.

The ones you will turn away need the most education on this issue.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #461 on: November 29, 2016, 10:38:38 PM »
I think we need two separate threads on this. One for people who personally know people who have died and one for people who don't.
Oh boy. How much I like this post. ;)

Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #462 on: November 29, 2016, 10:40:27 PM »
And one for people who are or know and deal with addicts and one for people who have no clue.
Unfortunately I have seen people deal with other issues and consider themselves experts while really being harmful and having less of a clue than someone who spent a little time on Google. All I did was say that care must be taken due to something real which I came across. A simple we do or will take it into account or am I will look into it would have ended everything. Instead I was attacked. That is how a pro would react not to be so defensive.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 10:54:57 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #463 on: November 29, 2016, 10:53:06 PM »
Great so the articles ads events etc are done in a way which makes sure to avoid the pitfalls. How about the discussions about it on DDF? Dis everyone who yells let's bring awareness agonize over it?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline thaber

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #464 on: December 04, 2016, 03:55:40 AM »
http://www.totpi.com/34222-2/

http://www.totpi.com/34224-2/

@havces42 there are at least a few Jewish orgs where I am that host regular meetings

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #465 on: December 04, 2016, 10:42:03 PM »
Show me an orthodox jewish institution in NYC or Lakewood or monsey, or Miami, or LA, or Chicago or or or that hosts 12 step meetings.

I know of one in Brooklyn.
Makes me wonder if this is self-introspection:

And one for people who are or know and deal with addicts and one for people who have no clue.

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Offline thaber

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #466 on: December 04, 2016, 11:20:59 PM »
Show me an orthodox jewish institution in NYC or Lakewood or monsey, or Miami, or LA, or Chicago or or or that hosts 12 step meetings.
off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many, many more.

https://www.facebook.com/YY-House-1006847092686846/
http://www.chabadrehab.com/
http://torahtwelvesteps.org/
http://www.realizationcenternyc.com/treatment-services/orthodox-program/

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #467 on: December 04, 2016, 11:32:16 PM »
off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many, many more.

https://www.facebook.com/YY-House-1006847092686846/
http://www.chabadrehab.com/
http://torahtwelvesteps.org/
http://www.realizationcenternyc.com/treatment-services/orthodox-program/
Maybe i should have qualified this request. Looking for shuls or schools that host meetings, not rehabs or treatment centers...or for profit businesses!!!
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #468 on: December 04, 2016, 11:34:34 PM »
I know of one in Brooklyn.
Makes me wonder if this is self-introspection:
It was...but difficult to convey. I was trying to make a point that there are very few compared to how many there are in churches.
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Offline thaber

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #469 on: December 04, 2016, 11:42:15 PM »
Maybe i should have qualified this request. Looking for shuls or schools that host meetings, not rehabs or treatment centers...or for profit businesses!!!
It was...but difficult to convey. I was trying to make a point that there are very few compared to how many there are in churches.
the two first ones are non profits, and don't charge to attend meetings. Churches, as you pointed out, are just convenient venues. So are the above. Not really convenient to use the ezras noshim :)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #470 on: December 04, 2016, 11:48:23 PM »
It was...but difficult to convey. I was trying to make a point that there are very few compared to how many there are in churches.

There is an element of privacy that is necessary, which explains why a church is more suited for a meeting than a shul.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #471 on: December 05, 2016, 12:06:04 AM »
There is an element of privacy that is necessary, which explains why a church is more suited for a meeting than a shul.
Of course the element of privacy. You also have the stigma. So shuls are not conducive because Jews cant keep from being yentas. But if you have those that will not go to a church...

You gotta read my question in the context of the discussion.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #472 on: December 05, 2016, 12:07:56 AM »
the two first ones are non profits, and don't charge to attend meetings. Churches, as you pointed out, are just convenient venues. So are the above. Not really convenient to use the ezras noshim :)
Obviously not the ezras nashim...but the classrooms of a school after hours?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #473 on: December 05, 2016, 12:11:37 AM »
Of course the element of privacy. You also have the stigma. So shuls are not conducive because Jews cant keep from being yentas. But if you have those that will not go to a church...

You gotta read my question in the context of the discussion.

I read your point as part of the discussion which I why wrote what I did.
Your idea is to show the entire world that we have addicts, so in that context, complaining that no shuls hold meetings -despite the fact that various Jewish community centers and organizations hold meetings- is another way to achieve your goal.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #474 on: December 05, 2016, 12:18:43 AM »
I read your point as part of the discussion which I why wrote what I did.
Your idea is to show the entire world that we have addicts, so in that context, complaining that no shuls hold meetings -despite the fact that various Jewish community centers and organizations hold meetings- is another way to achieve your goal.
No thats not the intent. We just need to take away one of the most common excuses for not going to meetings. Not to show the world anything.
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Online zh cohen

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #475 on: December 05, 2016, 09:20:18 PM »
Someone involved in the field told me that he was counseling a public figure in dealing with am addiction, and the person wanted to find a 12 step group where he would not be recognized. He drove some distance to a program in the basement of a church, and when he walked in, another frum person was sitting there...

Also, if the program is happening in the social hall or basement of a church, and is sticking to the program, there is certainly no problem in going (although an addict will use any excuse). But some churches have programs that are explicitly Christian but loosely based on the 12 steps, and that is Assur. In other words, not all "12 step programs" are really doing only the 12 steps.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #476 on: December 06, 2016, 12:34:36 AM »
All I've seen here is that it's 100% okay to enter a church.

As seen in this article, it is not so simple.
I'm sure there are better, more thorough articles, but the point stands. That it's not so simple to even walk into a church, so instead of paskening for others, AYLOR or find any of the Jewish meetings.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #477 on: December 06, 2016, 01:35:46 AM »
All I've seen here is that it's 100% okay to enter a church.

As seen in this article, it is not so simple.
I'm sure there are better, more thorough articles, but the point stands. That it's not so simple to even walk into a church, so instead of paskening for others, AYLOR or find any of the Jewish meetings.
I didnt bother reading that. IMHO its pikuach nefesh. If going into an ancillary part of a church (not the sanctuary) is yaharog v'al yaavor then fine, drop dead instead, just dont take others with you.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #478 on: December 06, 2016, 01:48:00 AM »
I didnt bother reading that. IMHO its pikuach nefesh. If going into an ancillary part of a church (not the sanctuary) is yaharog v'al yaavor then fine, drop dead instead, just dont take others with you.

I'm not arguing if it is or isn't pikuach nefesh.
In the article one rov wouldn't walk into a church even in a pikuach nefesh situation.
Either way, most of the time there is a kosher option but if there isn't you should ask a rav.

This thread makes it like it's not even a question.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #479 on: December 06, 2016, 01:53:46 AM »
I'm not arguing if it is or isn't pikuach nefesh.
In the article one rov wouldn't walk into a church even in a pikuach nefesh situation.
Either way, most of the time there is a kosher option but if there isn't you should ask a rav.

This thread makes it like it's not even a question.
If you need a rov, Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twerski has said it many times. Yesh al me lismoch.
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