Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 213531 times)

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #500 on: December 22, 2016, 11:48:54 AM »
not that I know of.
Case closed.

(I'm biting my tongue & holding back from saying the things I really want to say to you)

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #501 on: December 22, 2016, 11:56:02 AM »
Case closed.

(I'm biting my tongue & holding back from saying the things I really want to say to you)
Many others would answer the same and they are left unchallenged because they are "daas torah" ( which is about the equivalent of magical fairy dust powers if you ask me).

Just say it, its almost friday anyway. We need some PC
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Offline Emkay

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #502 on: December 22, 2016, 12:01:22 PM »


"daas torah" ( which is about the equivalent of magical fairy dust powers if you ask me).


Good thing noone is asking you.

Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #503 on: December 22, 2016, 12:02:16 PM »
Case closed.

(I'm biting my tongue & holding back from saying the things I really want to say to you)
And everyone else are the ones with their head in the sand ::)

I am not advocating for nothing to be done or for it not to be publicized, only that it be done with thought and by real professionals and not by
Many others who would answer the same and they are left unchallenged because they claim to be"daas torah". (FTFY)
I make no claim of being anywhere close to fully knowledgeable on the subject and I am fully satisfied with this that CBC says how the publicity and event in Lakewood was well thought out and planned in conjunction with professionals. Why is this even controversial?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #504 on: December 22, 2016, 12:03:08 PM »



Just say it, its almost friday anyway. We need some PC
there's nothing funny about this topic & there certainly shouldn't be anything to argue about.


Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #505 on: December 22, 2016, 12:11:04 PM »
there's nothing funny about this topic & there certainly shouldn't be anything to argue about.


Tell me, do you feel that it should be publicized without professional guidance?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #506 on: December 22, 2016, 12:11:32 PM »
there's nothing funny about this topic & there certainly shouldn't be anything to argue about.
Its not controversial or funny. "Professionals" is code...
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Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #507 on: December 22, 2016, 12:15:03 PM »
Its not controversial or funny. "Professionals" is code...
code for what? I definitely don't mean it as a code for anything. Maybe I should change my wording if people are thinking that I mean something other than what I really do.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #508 on: December 22, 2016, 12:16:56 PM »
code for what? I definitely don't mean it as a code for anything. Maybe I should change my wording if people are thinking that I mean something other than what I really do.
The way I'm taking it is "without rabbinical input as to who is an acceptable "professional"". Do you mean it otherwise?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #509 on: December 22, 2016, 12:20:37 PM »
The way I'm taking it is "without rabbinical input as to who is an acceptable "professional"". Do you mean it otherwise?
No I do not mean it that way at all. I mean someone who is trained properly in how to deal with addiction and understands the many factors involved based on real statistics and the knowledge and experience to interpret them.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #510 on: December 22, 2016, 12:26:47 PM »
Guys, I've argued with aygart (left it lowercase for you) plenty. Frankly, you guys are being ridiculously unfair and assigning positions and opinions to him which he has never laid claim to. Stop "reading into" his comments, and just read them.

He has posted his desire for experts in the field to be the ones coordinating and directing campaigns, and never once intimated that Rabbinic authority be consulted over medical and psychological experts.


Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #511 on: December 22, 2016, 12:51:27 PM »
Guys, I've argued with aygart (left it lowercase for you) plenty. Frankly, you guys are being ridiculously unfair and assigning positions and opinions to him which he has never laid claim to. Stop "reading into" his comments, and just read them.

He has posted his desire for experts in the field to be the ones coordinating and directing campaigns, and never once intimated that Rabbinic authority be consulted over medical and psychological experts.
Since youre his lawyer, what does he mean when he says "in conjunction with professionals"? What is being "intimated" then? Its exactly what is being suggested. The rabbinic authority has final say on what is presented over and above any medical or psychological authority
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Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #512 on: December 22, 2016, 01:01:09 PM »
Since youre his lawyer, what does he mean when he says "in conjunction with professionals"? What is being "intimated" then? Its exactly what is being suggested. The rabbinic authority has final say on what is presented over and above any medical or psychological authority
What in the world are you talking about! Now I understand the whole conversation from before. You are twisting my words terribly. If you take everything people say and twist it like you did with mine you will never be able to accept any suggestions that anyone makes and will accomplish little. Why do you feel a need to create a straw man?

There will always need to be askanim involved to arrange many of the practicalities. It will be a good idea to have some rabbonim to work with them too but they need to be ones smart enough to realize that the professionals are the ones who really know how to deal with it and they would only give some halachic and hashkafic guidance. Why is this so complicated? Why are you insisting on putting words in my mouth?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #513 on: December 22, 2016, 01:12:24 PM »
Since youre his lawyer, what does he mean when he says "in conjunction with professionals"? What is being "intimated" then? Its exactly what is being suggested. The rabbinic authority has final say on what is presented over and above any medical or psychological authority

His claim repeatedly has been, "hey anonymous internet people, well-intentioned as we all might be, there can be unintended consequences when dealing with issues as serious as drug addiction. No matter how much we, communal & rabbinic leaders want to help, any campaign or project must be done in conjunction with professionals in the field so as to ensure they are actually helping and not making things worse."

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #514 on: December 22, 2016, 02:08:47 PM »
Tell me, do you feel that it should be publicized without professional guidance?
I will not discuss this this topic further with you as you're position is ridiculous, pathetic & indefensible.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #515 on: December 22, 2016, 02:23:03 PM »
If the professional must rely on the rabbinic for hashkafa and halacha then it is rabbinic in conjunction with professional. If it the other way around then the professional is dealing with it. Otherwise, the rabbi has final say on content and you temper the message. No one is twisting anyones words.

Answer the question, who has final say on the message and means of conveying such message, rabbi or professional?
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #516 on: December 22, 2016, 02:25:49 PM »
His claim repeatedly has been, "hey anonymous internet people, well-intentioned as we all might be, there can be unintended consequences when dealing with issues as serious as drug addiction. No matter how much we, communal & rabbinic leaders want to help, any campaign or project must be done in conjunction with professionals in the field so as to ensure they are actually helping and not making things worse."
Your irrational, baseless, fabricated fear of non-existent unintended consequences clouds your intent and ability to help.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #517 on: December 22, 2016, 02:28:07 PM »
If the professional must rely on the rabbinic for hashkafa and halacha then it is rabbinic in conjunction with professional. If it the other way around then the professional is dealing with it. Otherwise, the rabbi has final say on content and you temper the message. No one is twisting anyones words.

Answer the question, who has final say on the message and means of conveying such message, rabbi or professional?
Professional.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #518 on: December 22, 2016, 02:29:10 PM »
If the professional must rely on the rabbinic for hashkafa and halacha then it is rabbinic in conjunction with professional. If it the other way around then the professional is dealing with it. Otherwise, the rabbi has final say on content and you temper the message. No one is twisting anyones words.

Answer the question, who has final say on the message and means of conveying such message, rabbi or professional?
Sorry, just joining the party, but is there anyone here who argues with the notion that Rabbonim and mental health professionals BOTH have important insight to add to this topic? Professionals need to consult with Rabbonim in these matters AND Rabbonim need to consult with professionals in these matters.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #519 on: December 22, 2016, 02:41:41 PM »
Sorry, just joining the party, but is there anyone here who argues with the notion that Rabbonim and mental health professionals BOTH have important insight to add to this topic? Professionals need to consult with Rabbonim in these matters AND Rabbonim need to consult with professionals in these matters.
Obviously. However...

Your irrational, baseless, fabricated fear of non-existent unintended consequences clouds your intent and ability to help.
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