Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 213554 times)

Offline Sport

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #560 on: December 22, 2016, 04:36:50 PM »
Also, see the comment.. nebach.
This one: Thank you for sharing this. You are not alone.

I'm a recovering wife of an active addict. Never touched a drug in my life. Not even weed. I drink once in seven years. I'm still a ball of fun and can outdance all the stoners and alcoholics at any wedding. My biggest vice is some TV in the evenings.

I barely have 24 hours clean. Clean from the last time I meddled in my addicts life.

I've been working an Al-Anon program for 1.5 years now, but lately I've been slipping more and more. Last night was awful. We're a nice Jewish family. Struggling. Married with two kids. I thought I was well-adjusted way before I got married. Didn't need a man to complete me. Happy, in love, loving, not too clingy. So Tell me why my husband is an active addict? No idea. Tell me why his GP of 30 yrs prescribed Oxys to a father of two who had a drug problem twenty years ago? Only Gd knows. Why is my husband snorting in the bathroom? Where's the big-papa teddy bear that didn't know how to lie to save his life and now manipulates every sentence to cover a web of lies? Why are his eyes glossed over? Why is he dying and slipping away between my finger tips? Why do I wake up every night to the sound of pill boxes?

Did I enable him? Hell no. Not as soon as I realized he has an 'addictive personality'. Jews aren't addicts I thought. Not my husband anyway. Everyone drinks on the weekend, I thought.

"I'm too young for this shit and I'm too old for this shit."
That's my motto sometimes.
I'm too young to be a widow at 30, I'm too old to deal with a 35yr old regressing to his 17 yr old adolescent authority-hating self.

Do I fight the good fight to keep this family together, to keep him alive? Of course I do. I am Omnipotent, I can do anything, I am his Higher Power. Clearly a part of me still hasn't internalized that I'm not in control, that I can't cure him. And yet somehow I keep contributing. I keep trying to get him clean. To raise his bottom, to be his spiritual awakening. How do you think I'm doing, personally? Honest to god truth, any addict already knows what i look like, a broken sobbing mess, as I write this, because it reminds me to feel sorry for myself. Other days I'm a strong lionness, challenging my husband to step up to the plate, to be "a man". I'm just as insane as he is.

And I've reached my Zen zones. I know how to meditate, how to call my sponsor. I have seven Al-Anon associated literatures next to my bed. And I still don't understand the addict. I still am freaked the f out that he will overdose and die, leaving us behind. Our kids worship the ground he walks on. They're 5 & 3. They need their dad.

If there are addicts reading this, I know you like nothing less than a spouse's sob story. I hate weakness as well. I'm not usually a mess, I'm strong and I will hold on to this house like four archangels only can until he can get better, and to not let his disease and mine affect us. I asked him to leave today.

What's my point? That this man, last night, as I begged him to give me the pills before he goes for a bath, as petite little me fought him to keep the bathroom door open and trying to grab at his pill bag, I saw the look in his eyes. I mean, I know I look like a crazy person: the crying and yelling and sniffling. I know what I look like. But his look. It's so different now. He is so far gone. I remind him who he is at these moments, I call him by his full name. "You are Akiva Hillel son of Tzvi Aryeh. You are not defined by your addiction". But this time it just didn't reach him. He will do everything to protect his Higher Power - his pills. And I feel like it's a lost battle. But then I go to AA and NA forums and I see these ppl with their badass counting apps: 3 days clean, 5 months, 30 yrs, telling their story, and I tell myself to just do what I gotta do and get out of the way so Gd and my addict can dance their dance. It gives me compassion to hear other addicts, it reminds me he is owed respect and dignity to make his own mistakes. It reminds me I'm not at fault but I'm also not responsible to make him or keep him clean.

There is hope for those living with or who know of active addicts. Look up Al-Anon or Nar-Anon groups. Find ways to save yourself and the rest of the family while Gd handles the addict. He's the only One who can.

"We admitted we were powerless over the addict, that our lives had become unmanageable." - Step 1 of the 12 Steps.
 :'(

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #561 on: December 22, 2016, 04:39:50 PM »
Becausr that watered down message hasnt been working. Our community has been coddled and babied to death, literally.
I think the prevalence of sweeping issues under the rug and not addressing issues at all is the reason why our "watered down message" hasn't been working. It's because it has been almost non-existent for a long time. The message (or lack thereof) has not been supported by professionals in the field. I think that the fact that there seems to be current interest/openness on the part of the community/Rabbanim to more open discussion in these areas is very encouraging. That doesn't mean that this new openness to communal education doesn't need to be done appropriately.

Online aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #562 on: December 22, 2016, 04:40:47 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #563 on: December 22, 2016, 04:43:01 PM »
What percentage of kids in the Orthodox Jewish education system would you estimate are addicted? (Even .000001% is too high and warrants a response-and no I don't think it is that low)
According to studies ive seen bandied about here and elsewhere pretty much the same percentage as the non-orthodox non-jewish kids. I think thats hogh
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Online aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #564 on: December 22, 2016, 04:47:26 PM »
I think the prevalence of sweeping issues under the rug and not addressing issues at all is the reason why our "watered down message" hasn't been working. It's because it has been almost non-existent for a long time. The message (or lack thereof) has not been supported by professionals in the field. I think that the fact that there seems to be current interest/openness on the part of the community/Rabbanim to more open discussion in these areas is very encouraging. That doesn't mean that this new openness to communal education doesn't need to be done appropriately.
You are stating my point much better than I would have. If there is an issue which affects 20% of kids does that mean we should publicize it without regard to trained rpofessionals and stick our heads in the sand about them saying that this may cause the issue to affect 30% because a may wter down the message? Some things need to be watered down appropriately while if it is watered down too much it will be ineffective. The trained professional is the one who will know that balance.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #565 on: December 22, 2016, 04:48:12 PM »
According to studies ive seen bandied about here and elsewhere pretty much the same percentage as the non-orthodox non-jewish kids. I think thats hogh
So do I. This is around what percent?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #566 on: December 22, 2016, 04:49:33 PM »
You are stating my point much better than I would have. If there is an issue which affects 20% of kids does that mean we should publicize it without regard to trained rpofessionals and stick our heads in the sand about them saying that this may cause the issue to affect 30% because a may wter down the message? Some things need to be watered down appropriately while if it is watered down too much it will be ineffective. The trained professional is the one who will know that balance.
Agree with both of you on this. However, the vetting process of professionals who are allowed to mold that message is whats broken as well.
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Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #567 on: December 22, 2016, 04:50:01 PM »
That letter is eye-opening. If the husband was bringing ham into the bathroom to eat, then don't you think that the rabbis would work harder to put an end to it!?!
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Offline beeweegee

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #568 on: December 22, 2016, 04:59:17 PM »
So do I. This is around what percent?
Depends on the demographic and particular grade/age. Recent numbers aren't quite 20%, but certainly far higher than the above-mentioned .001%. If I recall correctly, 12th graders were around 5 or 6% for daily marijuana use, and less for other drugs. As an aside, it's interesting that recent studies have found a decline in high school drug use, but also a decline in the perceived risk of harm.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #569 on: December 22, 2016, 04:59:54 PM »
In the frum community I would say that it's a higher percentage than kids with cancer.

That enough?

Online aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #570 on: December 22, 2016, 05:01:13 PM »
Agree with both of you on this. However, the vetting process of professionals who are allowed to mold that message is whats broken as well.
This is all I was saying the entire time. All you needed to do was open your ears instead of fitting me into some pre-conceived notions.

The vetting process may well be broken. I have no knowledge of that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #571 on: December 22, 2016, 05:03:09 PM »
Depends on the demographic and particular grade/age. Recent numbers aren't quite 20%, but certainly far higher than the above-mentioned .001%. If I recall correctly, 12th graders were around 5 or 6% for daily marijuana use, and less for other drugs. As an aside, it's interesting that recent studies have found a decline in high school drug use, but also a decline in the perceived risk of harm.
The 20% was intentionally high and the .00001% was intentionally low.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #572 on: December 22, 2016, 05:04:46 PM »
In the frum community I would say that it's a higher percentage than kids with cancer.

That enough?
Enough for it to be important to do something about hte problem? ABSOLUTELY even if it is much less than that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #573 on: December 22, 2016, 05:07:56 PM »
In the frum community I would say that it's a higher percentage than kids with cancer.

That enough?

YES! Especially, if done correctly: early enough, and with education, prevention, connection, and constant updates, then it's preventable.
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Offline dmdmoses46

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #574 on: December 22, 2016, 06:25:05 PM »
the problem is not the drug addiction per se the problem that these kids are not doing anything in yeshiva and they are not feeling like they are doing anything with their life and thats why they turn to drugs everyone is making like it's a mental illness which we don't want to confront that is missing the boat with the underlying issue here

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #575 on: December 22, 2016, 10:52:36 PM »
Rabbi aygart has been saying that professionals enlightening our community to the dangers of addiction must do so very carefully so as to avoid unintended consequences. Presumably he means that the benefit of education must be weighed against some stupid kid trying drugs or acting out on some other addiction as a result of said education. That sort of thinking has Brisk chumrah written all over it.
I think you being personally involved in so many of these cases is clouding your judgment. And the way you are speaking during these arguments show that all to well.
I am not taking sides here but argue coherently and stop sticking words into Aygarts mouth.

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #576 on: December 22, 2016, 11:18:37 PM »
I think you being personally involved in so many of these cases is clouding your judgment. And the way you are speaking during these arguments show that all to well.
I am not taking sides here but argue coherently and stop sticking words into Aygarts mouth.
Thank you for your imput.
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Offline Talmid Muvhak

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #577 on: December 23, 2016, 02:33:41 AM »
Enough for it to be important to do something about hte problem? ABSOLUTELY even if it is much less than that.
כל המקיים נפש אחת מישראל....
If we look at these kids as individuals and see what THEIR needs are and where their place in Klal Yisroel is and help them to go in their way חנוך לנער על פי דרכו and not to fit into a mold they don't fit into then they will be happy and fulfilled and not looking for other highs. If you speak to a lot of these kids you see that what is on their minds is just being who they are.
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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #578 on: December 23, 2016, 02:39:55 AM »
the problem is not the drug addiction per se the problem that these kids are not doing anything in yeshiva and they are not feeling like they are doing anything with their life and thats why they turn to drugs everyone is making like it's a mental illness which we don't want to confront that is missing the boat with the underlying issue here

that is why prevention and education is so important. Education is not just typical yeshiva learning. It's other hands-on, practical, life-saving education in other fields of assistance, invention, and helping/improving others.
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Offline Talmid Muvhak

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Silent Killer
« Reply #579 on: December 23, 2016, 02:45:27 AM »
the problem is not the drug addiction per se the problem that these kids are not doing anything in yeshiva and they are not feeling like they are doing anything with their life and thats why they turn to drugs everyone is making like it's a mental illness which we don't want to confront that is missing the boat with the underlying issue here
And the solution is finding a way for them to be productive. All is not lost, people are coming around even outside the forums. I was speaking to one of the menahalim of one of the biggest chedarim in the USA last week about this and he said how he is excited that he will be able to send to new Mesivtas that are "programs" for these boys as opposed to sending to a particular Mesivta run by someone in chinuch who "wants to say a shiur" to them.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 03:07:20 AM by Talmid Muvhak »
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