Author Topic: Silent Killer  (Read 213617 times)

Offline yochiek93

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #820 on: July 17, 2017, 07:47:22 PM »
$5 to get high off heroin?
You sure they're not selling flour?
It's not that expensive because the dealers know they will come back for the stronger stuff i.e. fentanyl
And most is mixed not pure

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #821 on: July 17, 2017, 07:48:46 PM »
$5 to get high off heroin?
You sure they're not selling flour?
Even dime bags are now $20

Inflation
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Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #822 on: July 17, 2017, 10:48:30 PM »
I was being kinda sarcastic. We as a community can't really get involved in the broader war on drugs.....
.....
Eg. I'm sure one of the groisah roshei yeshiva who kicked out a boy a few weeks before the end of the year (for going to CVS!!) would have waited till the end of the year, preserve his dignity, and just maybe maybe saved his life... But he didn't. Assuming he didn't take the "dinay nefashos" thing literally.. wasn't aware..

if there was seriously an incident where a CVS visit was the reason for being kicked out, then there needs to be a policy of a 10-member elected board to make decisions on students expulsions rather than one single person making such a huge life-altering (or in this case, a life-or-death) decision.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #823 on: July 17, 2017, 11:01:39 PM »


if there was seriously an incident where a CVS visit was the reason for being kicked out, then there needs to be a policy of a 10-member elected board to make decisions on students expulsions rather than one single person making such a huge life-altering (or in this case, a life-or-death) decision.

Oh there seriously was.. I personally know this first hand.

Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #824 on: July 17, 2017, 11:06:22 PM »

Oh there seriously was.. I personally know this first hand.

i've been in chinuch for many years, and I truly hope that this is not the entire picture, as it seems that this was a turning point, and possibly his 'last straw'.

 Even with 10 warnings, and even if he was meeting a girl there, and even if he was buying something, etc..... (all of which it seems is not the case), there would really need to be a clear meeting with parents, very straight forward understanding, and ideally waiting for a few more weeks until the end of school to do something so negative and so earth-shattering to a teenager...
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Offline henche

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #825 on: July 17, 2017, 11:14:55 PM »
i've been in chinuch for many years, and I truly hope that this is not the entire picture, as it seems that this was a turning point, and possibly his 'last straw'.

 Even with 10 warnings, and even if he was meeting a girl there, and even if he was buying something, etc..... (all of which it seems is not the case), there would really need to be a clear meeting with parents, very straight forward understanding, and ideally waiting for a few more weeks until the end of school to do something so negative and so earth-shattering to a teenager...

Are you seriously surprised?

Offline yochiek93

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #826 on: July 17, 2017, 11:18:21 PM »
Are you seriously surprised?
That's the really sad thing

Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #827 on: July 17, 2017, 11:20:59 PM »
Are you seriously surprised?

yes. I am surprised that someone did not line up another educational alternative before making a life-or-death decision such as this. What rov would allow this risk? Rabbi Dr. Twerski has been speaking for decades, and now also Rabbi YY Jacobson, Rabbi Y Horowitz, etc..., and it's becoming more clear that lives are at stake. Perhaps real decision making and full board administrative policies can help to prevent 10+ deaths similar to these from occurring next school year.
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Offline henche

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #828 on: July 17, 2017, 11:55:53 PM »
yes. I am surprised that someone did not line up another educational alternative before making a life-or-death decision such as this. What rov would allow this risk? Rabbi Dr. Twerski has been speaking for decades, and now also Rabbi YY Jacobson, Rabbi Y Horowitz, etc..., and it's becoming more clear that lives are at stake. Perhaps real decision making and full board administrative policies can help to prevent 10+ deaths similar to these from occurring next school year.

I'm sad, but not remotely surprised.  Par for the course.  I'm sure they said he was "being mekalkel acheirim."

Offline CS1

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #829 on: July 18, 2017, 12:51:27 AM »
I'm sad, but not remotely surprised.  Par for the course.  I'm sure they said he was "being mekalkel acheirim."
we know that would NOT be Moshe Rabeinu's response, nor any other real leader, Rebbe,
especially in cases of life-or-death. This is a chinuch lesson for the class, too.

As Rabbi Jacobson says in the clip:
  • "Instead of systems serving students,  ...the students are serving the system."

    "Dictatorship vs. morally free-based society."

    Systems are important, ....but systems are here to enhance and give structure, and to enhance to our life, not to destroy our life.
    "Provides structure: Every day at 7:00, I go to the gym.
      "Okay, but today your child needs to go to the hospital."
        "I'm sorry, I follow systems. At 7:00 I go to the gym."
        "But your kid is not breathing; she needs to go to the hospital."

    Rabbi Jacobson: "Systems are good when they promote life; not when they become traps that promote death."

    Source: minute 35:30 in this link: http://bit.ly/RabbiJacobsonSchoolLeadershipAddictionIssue
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Offline hvaces42

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Offline thaber

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #831 on: July 18, 2017, 09:56:56 AM »
https://hareiani.com/2017/07/17/how-the-gedolim-lost-my-faith/amp/
Come on. You're pushing a piece in which Avi shafran is representative of all gedolim? And gedolim only get there because they have power? You know better then to engage in bizui talmedei chachomim.
Yes, silence is an issue. No, that doesn't mean that there are no chashuva people in the world besides for Zvi Gluck.

Offline Moshe123

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Offline Emkay

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #833 on: July 18, 2017, 11:15:50 AM »
https://hareiani.com/2017/07/17/how-the-gedolim-lost-my-faith/amp/
The way he ended off ruined it all. He won't accomplish much with that attitude. The same way your cynicism to the people you don't agree with doesn't do much to endear you to others and help get a valid point across.

Offline theduke

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #834 on: July 18, 2017, 04:32:23 PM »
we know that would NOT be Moshe Rabeinu's response, nor any other real leader, Rebbe,
In Moshe Rabbeinus times beis would give malkus with 2 edim and hasraa or makus mardus in other cases. One underlying issue in this generation is that people don't take responsibility for their actions. Chas Vshalom to discipline a child in yeshiva these days...
My Rosh Yeshiva used to quote either the Chazon Ish or the Steipler (don't remember which) that we should teach children the concepts of schar vonesh and not be worried about scaring the child off learning about hell.
This doesn't mean to say that we should kick all bad kids out of school but we can't always baby everyone all the time and sometimes you need to put your foot down and accept that people make their own choices.

Offline Sport

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #835 on: July 18, 2017, 05:02:17 PM »
In Moshe Rabbeinus times beis would give malkus with 2 edim and hasraa or makus mardus in other cases. One underlying issue in this generation is that people don't take responsibility for their actions. Chas Vshalom to discipline a child in yeshiva these days...
My Rosh Yeshiva used to quote either the Chazon Ish or the Steipler (don't remember which) that we should teach children the concepts of schar vonesh and not be worried about scaring the child off learning about hell.
This doesn't mean to say that we should kick all bad kids out of school but we can't always baby everyone all the time and sometimes you need to put your foot down and accept that people make their own choices.
in Moshe Rabbeinus times, we had leaders like Moshe rabbeinu, until that's the case let's not expect our kids to be on par with that Dor.

Offline aygart

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #836 on: July 18, 2017, 05:07:06 PM »
in Moshe Rabbeinus times, we had leaders like Moshe rabbeinu, until that's the case let's not expect our kids to be on par with that Dor.
You are taking that in only one direction while the argument goes both ways
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #837 on: July 18, 2017, 06:49:43 PM »


In Moshe Rabbeinus times beis would give malkus with 2 edim and hasraa or makus mardus in other cases. One underlying issue in this generation is that people don't take responsibility for their actions. Chas Vshalom to discipline a child in yeshiva these days...
My Rosh Yeshiva used to quote either the Chazon Ish or the Steipler (don't remember which) that we should teach children the concepts of schar vonesh and not be worried about scaring the child off learning about hell.
This doesn't mean to say that we should kick all bad kids out of school but we can't always baby everyone all the time and sometimes you need to put your foot down and accept that people make their own choices.

sigh....

Offline Sport

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #838 on: July 18, 2017, 07:25:47 PM »
You are taking that in only one direction while the argument goes both ways
Nah, these kids dont get enough credit, after all they're being raised by our generation. Remeber what they used to say about our generation when we were kids?

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Silent Killer
« Reply #839 on: July 18, 2017, 10:28:58 PM »
Come on. You're pushing a piece in which Avi shafran is representative of all gedolim? And gedolim only get there because they have power? You know better then to engage in bizui talmedei chachomim.
Yes, silence is an issue. No, that doesn't mean that there are no chashuva people in the world besides for Zvi Gluck.
I posted without comment. I can say that 2 individuals who are sitting in prison today because of people like this may actually be innocent. So please dont fault me for posting an article that may be relevant to the discussion in understanding  the feeling of disenfranchisement. Maybe it belonged in the interesting articles thread. I have no further comment on the article. Who said there are no other choshuva people? There are tons.
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