Author Topic: HVAC (heating and AC) question  (Read 10803 times)

Offline somefield

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2016, 12:18:25 PM »
From a quick google, hydronic heating seems to be either hot water baseboards, or radiant (underfloor) heating. How does that connect to the central AC?

Or am I missing something?
Hot water heating coil and blower assembly. Pretty common in some parts of North America.

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2016, 12:37:32 PM »
So it's like regular forced air, but the heat comes from a hot water source that gets blown through the ducts?

Offline JTZ

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2016, 12:39:47 PM »
So it's like regular forced air, but the heat comes from a hot water source that gets blown through the ducts?
Yes so no dry heat.
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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2016, 12:46:37 PM »
When I moved into my house (in Brooklyn), I got rid of the old steam radiators and replaced with central air/forced heat.

I did my research, etc etc and decided to go ahead with it and install it with humidifiers.

After years of experience I can tell you that I regret it (though not fully).

Pros:
1. Probably the most cost efficient way of heating.
2. Can get area temperature up quite fast.
3. Much lower installation cost (and simpler maintenance).

Cons:
1. Heat more or less "evenly" distributed, rather than having more heat where needed (next to windows/doors).
2. Ductwork, vents, returns, etc. are a lot more scientific than many people realize. Especially if you are working with rooms rather than open spaces. You really need someone that knows how to properly balance the ductwork (I learned this the very hard way).
3. Unlike radiator based systems, the second the system stops, so could comfort level, as opposed to radiators which remain hot and emit heat even when system is cycled off (due to thermostat reaching set temperature - location of thermostat is also of utmost importance, no matter what kind of heating you install).
4. Radiators are silent (mostly), whereas forced air will always create some level of noise.

Bottom line, in retrospect I think the ideal setup is what a friend of mine did (he could afford anything easily) which was radiant floor heating, with forced air backup. If I were to choose one, I would select radiant floor or radiators.

Interestingly enough, outside of NYC forced air is a lot more prevalent. I think it might have to do with the type of construction as well as the availability/reliability of gas/oil supply.

PM if you want to discuss more about my personal experience.
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Offline Sammy82

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 12:55:22 PM »
From a quick google, hydronic heating seems to be either hot water baseboards, or radiant (underfloor) heating. How does that connect to the central AC?

Or am I missing something?
Basically there are water filled coils going through my boiler. Then those pipes go up to my air handler. Instead of it blowing hot air from a burning furnace (which dries out the air), it blows those on those hot water pipes. It cost me an extra $3000 (for 2 zones).

Offline somefield

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 01:20:07 PM »
When I moved into my house (in Brooklyn), I got rid of the old steam radiators and replaced with central air/forced heat.

I did my research, etc etc and decided to go ahead with it and install it with humidifiers.

After years of experience I can tell you that I regret it (though not fully).

Pros:
1. Probably the most cost efficient way of heating.
2. Can get area temperature up quite fast.
3. Much lower installation cost (and simpler maintenance).

Cons:
1. Heat more or less "evenly" distributed, rather than having more heat where needed (next to windows/doors).
2. Ductwork, vents, returns, etc. are a lot more scientific than many people realize. Especially if you are working with rooms rather than open spaces. You really need someone that knows how to properly balance the ductwork (I learned this the very hard way).
3. Unlike radiator based systems, the second the system stops, so could comfort level, as opposed to radiators which remain hot and emit heat even when system is cycled off (due to thermostat reaching set temperature - location of thermostat is also of utmost importance, no matter what kind of heating you install).
4. Radiators are silent (mostly), whereas forced air will always create some level of noise.

Bottom line, in retrospect I think the ideal setup is what a friend of mine did (he could afford anything easily) which was radiant floor heating, with forced air backup. If I were to choose one, I would select radiant floor or radiators.

Interestingly enough, outside of NYC forced air is a lot more prevalent. I think it might have to do with the type of construction as well as the availability/reliability of gas/oil supply.

PM if you want to discuss more about my personal experience.
Responding to Cons "1" ZONING is the way around that. Look up Arzel.
Con 4: Variable speed blower and/or modulating bypass can rectify objectionable air noise.
I totally agree that that ductwork needs to be properly designed that's why a load calc needs to be done. You really should only use contractors that are familiar with Manual, J,Z (HVAC design books) etc.

Offline Sammy82

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2016, 01:34:23 PM »
Responding to Cons "1" ZONING is the way around that. Look up Arzel.
Con 4: Variable speed blower and/or modulating bypass can rectify objectionable air noise.
I totally agree that that ductwork needs to be properly designed that's why a load calc needs to be done. You really should only use contractors that are familiar with Manual, J,Z (HVAC design books) etc.
+1
Also, besides for zones, you could also use SmartVents (https://keenhome.io/). I planned on using a few in my house. Unfortunately they don't yet have my grate size (8*8).
Radiant heat costs a fortune.
But it is def important to get an installer that really knows what he's doing.

Offline somefield

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2016, 02:16:52 PM »
+1
Also, besides for zones, you could also use SmartVents (https://keenhome.io/). I planned on using a few in my house. Unfortunately they don't yet have my grate size (8*8).
Radiant heat costs a fortune.
But it is def important to get an installer that really knows what he's doing.
Just be aware that when products such as keenhome, ecovent etc. are used, they do not control the blower. That can potentially create some harmful static pressure and shorten the life of your blower motor. They have tried to get around that issue by opening and closing random zones but that totally negates your zoning and causes over-conditioning.

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2016, 09:34:36 AM »
how often do ppl get their gas heating and central air serviced?
every year? every couple of years?

Offline Boruch999

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2017, 07:51:13 PM »
I installed electric baseboard heating in my apartment in Israel.  I can't find flush mount programmable thermostats that fit into Israeli 503 boxes.  I found this on amazon.it.  It comes in a battery version and a 230v version.  My system was designed for 230v thermostats.  The problem is the seller who sells the 230v version doesn't ship out of Italy.  Can a battery operated thermostat switch 230v @ 16a or does it need some sort of relay?

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 03:09:49 PM »
Cross posting as this might be a more relevant thread


I put in a hearing system which is a mix of radiant & radiator heating in my house, over 2 floors they're split into different zones.

It seems obvious that each zone gets it's own thermostats which leads to the question, if I want to put in smart thermostats will I need to buy separate ones for each zone $$$$$$?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2017, 04:45:38 PM »
They sell thermostats that cover multiple zones.
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Offline am7734

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2017, 04:56:36 PM »
They sell thermostats that cover multiple zones.
But each zone will need a sensor

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2017, 11:31:08 PM »
But each zone will need a sensor
Please elaborate on that

Offline skyguy918

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Re: HVAC (heating and AC) question
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2017, 11:40:23 PM »
Please elaborate on that
You can't have them controlled separately (ie turn on and off based on the temp in each floor) without a way to sense the temperature in each floor separately. There may be systems out there where you can pair multiple sensors with 1 controller, but I think it's likely too niche to be cost effective - it'll be cheaper to just buy 2 separate wifi thermostats.

If you want everything to turn on and off at the same time, you can probably get someone to wire up 1 wifi thermostat controlling both systems at the same time.