Before Terminating A Pregnancy...

[ExGingi]

http://liveactionnews.org/doctors-said-jaxon-wouldnt-survive-now-hes-turning-two/

[yuneeq]

http://liveactionnews.org/doctors-said-jaxon-wouldnt-survive-now-hes-turning-two/

One of the comments:

Teri Law • 5 days ago
I was told that I had a miscarriage and that I needed a D& C to make sure that all the baby was out of my body. They did an ultra sound and I saw the babies heart beating and when I pointed it out on the screen the nurse turned the screen away from me so I could not see. So I sat up and said that I was not aware that they did this procedure on a baby with a beating heart and the doctor looked at me like I was some idiot. So I refused the procedure, said no. The doctor told me I was foolish, that he could "end my pain and suffering" right then and there. If I left then I would finish miscarrying during the weekend under a lot of pain. I said no, not with the heart still beating. Well that "non-viable" fetus is 14 years old, weighed 10 lbs 10 oz at birth, is on the honor roll every single time, has no defects. I don't understand why doctors are so quick to offer termination. TERRIBLE!

[ExGingi]

One of the comments:

Teri Law • 5 days ago
I was told that I had a miscarriage and that I needed a D& C to make sure that all the baby was out of my body. They did an ultra sound and I saw the babies heart beating and when I pointed it out on the screen the nurse turned the screen away from me so I could not see. So I sat up and said that I was not aware that they did this procedure on a baby with a beating heart and the doctor looked at me like I was some idiot. So I refused the procedure, said no. The doctor told me I was foolish, that he could "end my pain and suffering" right then and there. If I left then I would finish miscarrying during the weekend under a lot of pain. I said no, not with the heart still beating. Well that "non-viable" fetus is 14 years old, weighed 10 lbs 10 oz at birth, is on the honor roll every single time, has no defects. I don't understand why doctors are so quick to offer termination. TERRIBLE!

My oldest son (second child) was a very similar story, except that the Dr didn't even bother to take a sonogram, just said it's a miscarriage and wanted to scrape. Luckily my wife refused and we went the next day to a different ob/gyn who took a sonogram just to find a viable pregnancy.

When I got a bill for the emergency hospital visit, I called up the hospital and said if I ever hear about this bill again, they will hear from a lawyer about a malpractice suit. Sure enough never heard from them again.

We have lots of נחת from our son.

[yuneeq]

My oldest son (second child) was a very similar story, except that the Dr didn't even bother to take a sonogram, just said it's a miscarriage and wanted to scrape. Luckily my wife refused and we went the next day to a different ob/gyn who took a sonogram just to find a viable pregnancy.

When I got a bill for the emergency hospital visit, I called up the hospital and said if I ever hear about this bill again, they will hear from a lawyer about a malpractice suit. Sure enough never heard from them again.

We have lots of נחת from our son.

I had a feeling when posting the comment that this is a systemic problem, scary to see someone confirm it minutes later.
Who will ever know how many babies these butchers murdered based on false pretenses...

[ExGingi]

I had a feeling when posting the comment that this is a systemic problem, scary to see someone confirm it minutes later.
Who will ever know how many babies these butchers murdered based on false pretenses...

The root cause of this is the arrogance of כוחי ועוצם ידי, when people have the proper humility to realize who is really running everything, this is much less likely to happen.

[Moshe123]

Us, by definition of having big families with everyone having lots of kids, everyone has a story.

[good sam]

My oldest son (second child) was a very similar story, except that the Dr didn't even bother to take a sonogram, just said it's a miscarriage and wanted to scrape. Luckily my wife refused and we went the next day to a different ob/gyn who took a sonogram just to find a viable pregnancy.

When I got a bill for the emergency hospital visit, I called up the hospital and said if I ever hear about this bill again, they will hear from a lawyer about a malpractice suit. Sure enough never heard from them again.

We have lots of נחת from our son.

Wow what a story! How long ago did it happen?

[elit]

My brother was almost aborted bc the drs said the pregnancy would most def. kill my mother. 2nd dr concurred.  That shabbos my father bumped into a frum o.b. on way home from shul. Told him the story he said let me take a look.... long story short my brother is live and kicking 18 years later

[sky121]

With that same regard I hear So many people who are not to have more kids bc of major risks or risk of death and they still go ahead. Meanwhile just because they survive sometimes doesn't mean I agree with what they're doing.   :/

[sky121]

These stories are crazy. How they could not confirm... you always gotta be your own advocate.

[elit]

With that same regard I hear So many people who are not to have more kids bc of major risks or risk of death and they still go ahead. Meanwhile just because they survive sometimes doesn't mean I agree with what they're doing.   :/

Agreed in my brothers casev the other doctors weren't just rushing to judgement. It was a very complicated situation and many drs. and poskim were consulted and ultimately the 3rd dr.s opinion won out.

[ExGingi]

Wow what a story! How long ago did it happen?

Are you trying to guess my age?

[churnbabychurn]

With that same regard I hear So many people who are not to have more kids bc of major risks or risk of death and they still go ahead. Meanwhile just because they survive sometimes doesn't mean I agree with what they're doing.   :/

I know someone who has a serious medical condition and had a baby against the dr wishes.

Mother and baby are just fine. - I personally was very distressed the whole time that CV something will go wrong.
.

It thought me a lesson about having faith..

[sky121]

Agreed in my brothers casev the other doctors weren't just rushing to judgement. It was a very complicated situation and many drs. and poskim were consulted and ultimately the 3rd dr.s opinion won out.

Good to know.

[Ergel]

I know someone who has a serious medical condition and had a baby against the dr wishes.

Mother and baby are just fine. - I personally was very distressed the whole time that CV something will go wrong.
.

It thought me a lesson about having faith..

Just because something turns out in the end, doesn't mean it was the right thing to do

[sky121]

I know someone who has a serious medical condition and had a baby against the dr wishes.

Mother and baby are just fine. - I personally was very distressed the whole time that CV something will go wrong.
.

It thought me a lesson about having faith..

How does that teach faith exactly?
Wouldn't that almost be considered relying on a miracle? I could jump out of a building and land just fine. Doesn't mean I should.

Again many times there are many details that are not spoken about like stories where maybe there was a difference of opinion among doctors etc. I'm speaking about people who were told by every single doctor don't and they did anyway. While many stories can end up being okay in the end there are are many that aren't.

[sky121]

I don't think it's so black and white but I do think there are many times where people 'ignore' doctors "lshem mitzva" and it doesn't always end OK.

[churnbabychurn]

How does that teach faith exactly?
Wouldn't that almost be considered relying on a miracle? I could jump out of a building and land just fine. Doesn't mean I should.

Again many times there are many details that are not spoken about like stories where maybe there was a difference of opinion among doctors etc. I'm speaking about people who were told by every single doctor don't and they did anyway. While many stories can end up being okay in the end there are are many that aren't.

It wasn't "relying on a miracle", it was defying the conventional medical directive that a pregnancy with this condition can be very detrimental to the mother and also risky for the baby.
The dr was so mad that he fired her...

Anyway, they had real faith that everything will be fine and it was. Some understand this to be the definition of bitachon.

I'm still not condoning it though.

[yuneeq]

Might be time for a split off thread.
Gonna RTM this.

[zh cohen]

I don't think it's so black and white but I do think there are many times where people 'ignore' doctors "lshem mitzva" and it doesn't always end OK.

I agree that these decisions should not be taken lightly, but keep in mind that the Dr's values are often very different than ours.
When the dr says not to have children, it is because he is weighing the chance of harm/death of the mother against what he believes the value of having children is.

(Agav this may be part of the reason why the Rebbe often advised people to consult with a Rofeh Yedid who presumably knows your values)