Author Topic: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA  (Read 16634 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #165 on: September 01, 2016, 11:57:58 PM »
The conservatives sound like liberals in this case. He can do what he wants but he shouldn't because they get offended or because it hurts the feelings of vets or makes the flag sad.  Sounds like a reversal of roles in this case.
Of course. Standard operating procedure. The one difference is that when the conservatives get offended they still don't try to criminalize it.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #166 on: September 02, 2016, 12:37:28 AM »
The one good thing that came out of all this is that Americans are starting to remember that we have rights.
Many people weren't so sure at first.
No one is saying he doesn't have the right to sit. IMHO everyone knows that. The problem is having the right to do something is not the same as the right thing to do.

There are tons of ways to protest and make a statement without disrespecting those who have nothing to do with your beef.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #167 on: September 02, 2016, 12:56:10 AM »
No one is saying he doesn't have the right to sit. IMHO everyone knows that. The problem is having the right to do something is not the same as the right thing to do.

There are tons of ways to protest and make a statement without disrespecting those who have nothing to do with your beef.

Who gets to decide the "right way" and "wrong way"?  If his goal was to raise awareness, then this was definitely the right way. Will it ruffle feathers? Sure. Will it offend some? Sure.  But I think reasonable people can agree to disagree with him without calling him a piece of garbage as a commenter a few posts back did. 

Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #168 on: September 02, 2016, 12:59:02 AM »
Who gets to decide the "right way" and "wrong way"? 
Everyone does as it is their right to do so. If they make an example out him chances are the next guy will think twice about doing what he did.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #169 on: September 02, 2016, 01:00:26 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/posts/1127907043914879:0

It looks like he's reaching out to the veteran community and starting a productive conversation.  You can disagree with his opinion but you should give credit where credit is due.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #170 on: September 02, 2016, 01:04:23 AM »
Everyone does as it is their right to do so. If they make an example out him chances are the next guy will think twice about doing what he did.

Wait until people start complaining about Jews that don't remove our hats/yarmulkes during the national anthem.  Then you'll suddenly see people say that there are things that are more important in life than the symbolism.  Vilifying someone you disagree with so that the next person keeps quiet is not the way that we can exchange ideas freely. It just creates an echo chamber of people that you agree with and disagree in the way that you dictate.  Not quite the free society that we'd hope for.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #171 on: September 02, 2016, 01:11:30 AM »
Wait until people start complaining about Jews that don't remove our hats/yarmulkes during the national anthem. 
If this was done to protest the Flag I would be the first one to be complaining.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 01:15:32 AM by JTZ »
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #172 on: September 02, 2016, 01:14:23 AM »
The one difference is that when the conservatives get offended they still don't try to criminalize it.

I'm not challenging, I'm just not sure what you are referring to.  What are some recent cases where liberals have tried to criminalize offensive speech?


Offline aygart

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #173 on: September 02, 2016, 01:16:40 AM »
Who gets to decide the "right way" and "wrong way"?  If his goal was to raise awareness, then this was definitely the right way. Will it ruffle feathers? Sure. Will it offend some? Sure.  But I think reasonable people can agree to disagree with him without calling him a piece of garbage as a commenter a few posts back did. 
While I see that the comment definitely looks that way, I did not mean to call him a piece of garbage. I meant that in general someone can protest in a way that makes that person a piece of garbage. It was poorly written and I can no longer modify it.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #174 on: September 02, 2016, 01:17:19 AM »
If this one done to protest the Flag I would be the first one to be complaining.

That's not my point. My point is that everyone has priorities. To an Orthodox Jew, covering their head is a higher priority than showing the accepted respect for the national anthem.  And to this quarterback, his protest is more important.  Some may disagree with the Jews and some may disagree with the QB but there is no objective right and wrong in either case.

Offline aygart

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #175 on: September 02, 2016, 01:19:19 AM »
I'm not challenging, I'm just not sure what you are referring to.  What are some recent cases where liberals have tried to criminalize offensive speech?


some cases where they tried to get religious organization's tax exempt status revoked over what they felt was offensive. Can't search for them now. You can include trying to force bakers to bake gay wedding cakes as well.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #176 on: September 02, 2016, 01:19:47 AM »
While I see that the comment definitely looks that way, I did not mean to call him a piece of garbage. I meant that in general someone can protest in a way that makes that person a piece of garbage. It was poorly written and I can no longer modify it.
After seeing him in the pig cop socks calling him a piece of garbage would not be fair to the garbage. Use him as the classic case of how not to do things.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline aygart

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #177 on: September 02, 2016, 01:22:13 AM »
After seeing him in the pig cop socks calling him a piece of garbage would not be fair to the garbage. Use him as the classic case of how not to do things.
I guess I am not as hard line on this as you are. I think the pig socks aren't as bad as the sitting. They at least have something to do with the issue.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #178 on: September 02, 2016, 01:35:21 AM »
I guess I am not as hard line on this as you are. I think the pig socks aren't as bad as the sitting. They at least have something to do with the issue.

It's not a matter of degree of hardline. It's that we all have different opinions and emotions. That's a good thing!  That's the point I've been trying to make. It's ok to soften the hardline and realize that there is no right and wrong in this case.  It's complicated and everyone looks at it differently.

Offline ShlockDoc

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #179 on: September 02, 2016, 01:38:23 AM »
some cases where they tried to get religious organization's tax exempt status revoked over what they felt was offensive. Can't search for them now. You can include trying to force bakers to bake gay wedding cakes as well.

Revoking tax exempt status is not criminalizing speech.   Your second case is a better example. Although that is just adding homosexuals to the class of citizens that you can't discriminate against.  It's closer to your point but still doesn't support your statement that liberals try to criminalize offensive speech.