Author Topic: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA  (Read 47836 times)

Offline Sport

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2016, 08:46:00 PM »
This guy says it best

Everyone has the right to get disgusted or offended. But why should I care? The only thing that matters to me is that people are so goddamned judgmental.

Well then you might want to educate yourself and return when you have the cold hard facts.
Now who said America is despicable?
If I don't like a sports team I don't watch them.
If I'm not a fan of the flag I don't need to stand up for it.
I didn't make any concrete statements, you did. I'm humble enough to realize that my source of facts are from a media that always has an agenda one way or another.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2016, 08:46:28 PM »
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Offline @Yehuda

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2016, 08:48:28 PM »

Show me a comparison of how many criminals there are in those 2 countries.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2016, 08:57:35 PM »
Show me a comparison of how many criminals there are in those 2 countries.

This debate would turn out to be a never ending goose chase. Despite that, the homicide rate is 5x higher in the US, but the police shooting rate is roughly 65x higher in the US.
So let's concede to my first point that America isn't so great in every aspect.
We have bad criminals and brutal cops compared to others.

Some more facts/stats that may interest you:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2016, 09:11:00 PM »
At all sports games everyone rises in honor of the US cross which represents the parcel of land they were born on. They then recite their pledge of allegiance to the cross. Those who don't believe in the US cross are still pressured to pledge allegiance to the cross or they live in fear of ostricization.
What if they rise out of respect for those that gave their lives to defend the freedom the flag represents to them?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2016, 09:12:31 PM »
If white people weren't interested in stupid sports, they'd be washing toilets.
Who is they?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2016, 09:17:02 PM »
What if they rise out of respect for those that gave their lives to defend the freedom the flag represents to them?

There's nothing wrong with standing up for the flag just as there's nothing wrong in sitting down.
If they find meaning in standing up for a flag, that's nice. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2016, 09:18:52 PM »
There's nothing wrong with standing up for the flag just as there's nothing wrong in sitting down.
If they find meaning in standing up for a flag, that's nice. That doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
My point is it has nothing in common with religion.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2016, 09:23:07 PM »
My point is it has nothing in common with religion.

That's how you feel, I feel otherwise.
Why is the flag the only way to respect the dead?

IMHO a flag means much more than "respecting soldiers that die for the country".
And for arguments sake, it's difficult to say that the soldiers in Iraq/Vietnam/other pointless wars died defending the country.
But the flag is a reminder for them too?
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Offline JTZ

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2016, 09:30:00 PM »
Why is the flag the only way to respect the dead?

And for arguments sake, it's difficult to say that the soldiers in Iraq/Vietnam/other pointless wars died defending the country.
But the flag is a reminder for them too?
1- I never said it was the only way
2 - Now you are getting into politics but yes the flag represents their sacrifice.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2016, 10:01:06 PM »
1- I never said it was the only way
2 - Now you are getting into politics but yes the flag represents their sacrifice.

1. So those that sit aren't necessarily disrespecting the dead, correct? I can assume that they respect them in other ways. 
2. I don't see how the wars have anything to do with politics. Thousands of veterans died because of the mistakes of their government, I don't see that as a right/left issue. It's very nice to call them heroes but is it blasphemy to believe that they died in vain?

At the very least you can see now that there's another side to things let's not make a big deal over sitting down during an anthem.
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Online aygart

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2016, 10:02:32 PM »


That's how you feel, I feel otherwise.
Why is the flag the only way to respect the dead?

IMHO a flag means much more than "respecting soldiers that die for the country".

Once something has become an accepted way to respect their sacrifice to use it as a statement is offensive. That is exactly what he is intending it to be. If he would say that he feels that sitting is a better way to show respect people wouldn't care and would dismiss him as a kook.

Let us say that he has a good point about police brutality. It is still not something which the country stands for. If it exists as they claim it would be an issue which everyone would agree needs to be fixed. The symbolism of the flag is what is allowing him to be earning millions a year instead of working on a tobacco field. With his actions he is turning his back on all this country gave him.

Any reasonable person will realize that bigotry exists. Many of us have experienced it. But if a Jew would disrespect the country which has given more freedom than any other in thousands of years due to some bias against him he should be condemned.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2016, 10:03:58 PM »


1. So those that sit aren't necessarily disrespecting the dead, correct? I can assume that they respect them in other ways. 
2. I don't see how the wars have anything to do with politics. Thousands of veterans died because of the mistakes of their government, I don't see that as a right/left issue. It's very nice to call them heroes but is it blasphemy to believe that they died in vain?

At the very least you can see now that there's another side to things let's not make a big deal over sitting down during an anthem.
His whole point is to make a statement disrespecting the country.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2016, 10:13:39 PM »
Really? We're having a thread to discuss kapernick?who cares what he thinks?  Wasting a sec on this gives His opinion  more credence than it deserves

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2016, 10:15:26 PM »
Really? We're having a thread to discuss kapernick?who cares what he thinks?  Wasting a sec on this gives His opinion  more credence than it deserves
We are not discussing him. We are discussing the fans who burned jerseys.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2016, 10:33:56 PM »
@yuneeq, I wonder if our grandparents, who in America finally stopped being persecuted for being Jews, would agree with you.

Offline elit

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2016, 10:36:50 PM »
We are not discussing him. We are discussing the fans who burned jerseys.
Oh.  Sorry just saw the headline and refused to read the thread

Offline zale

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2016, 10:56:19 PM »
Dumb thing to do because will hate him for it but I have no problem with him sitting.
Patriotism is the only religion that if anyone dares question their loyalty they are burnt at the stake.

Patriotism in the American sense of the word is the polar opposite of religion. Patriotism means that you believe in everyone's right to freedom and liberty, and to live their lives as they see fit. Religion entails a set of rules that everyone must follow.

"Pledging allegiance" is pledging that you will fight to protect everyone's freedom, ironically, even those who don't take the pledge.

Nevertheless, "not standing" for the anthem or pledge means that you do NOT believe in these freedoms and that you are NOT ready to fight to protect them.

Your "grievances" with the government or police etc. don't excuse you for not standing up to protect the freedoms of your fellow countrymen as they would do for you. There is simply no other way to interpret this behavior.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2016, 11:03:15 PM »
Once something has become an accepted way to respect their sacrifice to use it as a statement is offensive. That is exactly what he is intending it to be. If he would say that he feels that sitting is a better way to show respect people wouldn't care and would dismiss him as a kook.

Let us say that he has a good point about police brutality. It is still not something which the country stands for. If it exists as they claim it would be an issue which everyone would agree needs to be fixed. The symbolism of the flag is what is allowing him to be earning millions a year instead of working on a tobacco field. With his actions he is turning his back on all this country gave him.

Any reasonable person will realize that bigotry exists. Many of us have experienced it. But if a Jew would disrespect the country which has given more freedom than any other in thousands of years due to some bias against him he should be condemned.

So many thungs wrong with what you wrote.
So one by one.

1. The national anthem isn't an anthem to respect the dead. It is used when respecting the dead, but when they DON'T say "let's sing this anthem in honor of our troops/vets", it has nothing to do with them but rather America and everything it represents. Yes that includes the troops, but that also includes all the bad things along with it. Obviously if the anthem is recited in memory he is disrespecting those that sacrificed for him. Though it doesn't help that the NFL and other sports leagues are literally paid millions to respect the troops, if you ask me that's worse than sitting down during a random non-troop supporting anthem.

2. America has had a problem with police brutality and has done nothing to reel it in. The brutality stems from policies in place that promote cops to use bullets first and policies that say the cop is never guilty no matter how wrong he is. Cops rarely ever get convicted and that's policy. You want to say this flag represents America, you can't change the facts, America is comprised of xyz mostly good things but also bad things.

3. You're obviously a firm believer in american exceptionalis as you believe an athlete like him wouldn't get paid millions to play sports in other countries. Yep only in America. FYI soccer players worldwide aren't picking tobbaco, they are some of the highest paid athletes in the world.

4. Criticizing a countries policies isn't akin to disrespect. We live in a democracy where the beauty of it is that citizens desires can actually be passed into law. Protesting a policy is part of the democratic process, and might be more patriotic than anything you've ever done.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Colin Kaepernick protest against USA
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2016, 11:09:34 PM »
@yuneeq, I wonder if our grandparents, who in America finally stopped being persecuted for being Jews, would agree with you.

They would love the democratic process and would love to be involved.
The first time their voice has been heard and considered.

Kap is a great example of democracy, if people agree with him they'll fight alongside to change the laws, if they disagree they'll fight to keep the laws the way they are.
For me the greatness of America is all about:
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
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