Public letter

[aygart]

I thought the letter from R' Feldman linked in the article was beautiful

+1

[zh cohen]

Why is it different than any other lo sasei?

Because no frum person would ever publicly announced his forbidden relationships ( and certainly not express pride in them) and expect to be called frum. Has anyone ever used "born this way" as a reason why eating pork should be accepted in the frum world?

[JTZ]

I thought the letter from R' Feldman linked in the article was beautiful

Powerful letter!

[churnbabychurn]

I thought the letter from R' Feldman linked in the article was beautiful

It was geoinos

[zh cohen]

I thought the letter from R' Feldman linked in the article was beautiful

Powerful letter!

It was geoinos

It should be required reading!

Link for the lazy:
https://guardyoureyes.com/resources/ssa/item/a-letter-by-reb-ahron-feldman-to-a-gay-baal-teshuva

[Dan]

That has kareis?
I don't see society pushing religious groups to accept eishes ish, or similar arayos.

Do you think that's far away?

[HBS]

Do you think that's far away?

Your point is why is this different from any other lo sasei.
My point is that because with every other lo sasei sheyesh bah kareis, historically, society (in the US, at least) has left religions alone and hasn't tried to force the religion to change its rules.
With homosexuality, however, the LGBT movement has a specific agenda to force religions to accept their "interpretation".
What is disturbing is that we used to be able to rely on America's strong tradition of freedom of religion. I doubt it now.

[Amusch]

Your point is why is this different from any other lo sasei.
My point is that because with every other lo sasei sheyesh bah kareis, historically, society (in the US, at least) has left religions alone and hasn't tried to force the religion to change its rules.
With homosexuality, however, the LGBT movement has a specific agenda to force religions to accept their "interpretation".
What is disturbing is that we used to be able to rely on America's strong tradition of freedom of religion. I doubt it now.

+100
To further the point, society has never included issurim into law, e.g. you can serve whatever god you want, but none were codified as law. Now, marital law includes SS marriage, just as bathrooms are specifically designated for trans, etc.

[Amusch]

The R Feldman letter is not new; what's interesting is that the hashkafa is not quite the same as his pieces on the same topic in his Eye of the Storm.

[henche]

This is far from the first time that the Torah has contradicted modern values.  3000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 2000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 1000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 

We were right then, we survived then, we are right now and we'll survive now. 

[Dan]

This is far from the first time that the Torah has contradicted modern values.  3000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 2000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 1000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 

We were right then, we survived then, we are right now and we'll survive now. 

Exactly.
There were societies where they prided theft. Societies where they prided adultery, after all, people were born to lust after what they can't have!
Etc, etc.
Existential threat is laughable.

[HBS]

Exactly.
There were societies where they prided theft. Societies where they prided adultery, after all, people were born to lust after what they can't have!
Etc, etc.
Existential threat is laughable.

The reason why people aren't laughing is that most times when we were forced by  goyim to accept their moral code, we were being forced by negative decrees, where people were able to rally against. או יהודי או צלוב is one thing.
When we are faced with a push that claims that we are out of date, we have fared much worse. Many Jews became Hellenists in the times of the Greeks. Many became reform when the "enlightenment" came around. So this pressure is scary and needs to be combatted with some level of mesiras nefesh.

[CZ60]

Just remember, everyone has tzelem elokim, chayav karet or not. When you lose sight of that, that's when the real problems start.

[Dan]

Just remember, everyone has tzelem elokim, chayav karet or not. When you lose sight of that, that's when the real problems start.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. But living in a society with gay marriage isn't an existential threat to Judaism.
/.02

[churnbabychurn]

This is far from the first time that the Torah has contradicted modern values.  3000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 2000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 1000 years ago we were doing our own thing. 

We were right then, we survived then, we are right now and we'll survive now.

Of course.
But in this generation there is a large segment of orthodoxy which worships modern values. For them this is an existential crises.

[Dan]

Of course.
But in this generation there is a large segment of orthodoxy which worships modern values. For them this is an existential crises.

Prove it.

[Cheesecake]

Of course.
But in this generation there is a large segment of orthodoxy which worships modern values. For them this is an existential crises.

ואני זאת בריתי אותם', אמר ה', 'רוחי אשר עליך, ודברי אשר שמתי בפיך, לא ימושו מפיך ומפי זרעך ומפי זרע זרעך', אמר ה', 'מעתה ועד עולם'

but that doesn't mean we're not in danger of chas v'shalom losing large segments of כלל ישראל, as has happened in the past.

[Cheesecake]

Prove it.

Open Orthodoxy

[Emkay]

Open Orthodoxy

That isn't Orthodox.

[Dan]

That isn't Orthodox.

+1