Author Topic: Public letter  (Read 46477 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #220 on: June 26, 2018, 08:01:29 PM »
קשים ב"ת לישראל כספחת

Offline Freddie

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #221 on: June 26, 2018, 09:46:32 PM »
That's not the wording of the gemara. Why are you taking the liberty to change it?

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #222 on: June 26, 2018, 10:38:47 PM »
That's not the wording of the gemara. Why are you taking the liberty to change it?
We aren't talking about a גר is that a fair enough reason?
(if I understand his point correctly.)
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #223 on: June 26, 2018, 11:02:40 PM »
That's not the wording of the gemara. Why are you taking the liberty to change it?
I wasn't quoting a gemara.

I also wasn't stating an absolute rule. Basically, many bt have it very difficult accepting real emuna in chazal and many aspects of the ikrim.. often they become our biggest problems.. אין כאן מקומו but there is lots to say on this topic...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 11:05:46 PM by churnbabychurn »

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #224 on: June 26, 2018, 11:14:29 PM »
I wasn't quoting a gemara.

I also wasn't stating an absolute rule. Basically, many bt have it very difficult accepting real emuna in chazal and many aspects of the ikrim.. often they become our biggest problems.. אין כאן מקומו but there is lots to say on this topic...

As someone who doesn't use foul language in real life, you have a distinct ability to get me to wish to curse rabidly and angrily online.
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Offline cmey

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #225 on: June 27, 2018, 12:45:08 AM »
קשים ב"ת לישראל כספחת

Often the same character traits that motivate a BT to make a major life change have the potential to lead him to where an FFB would never go. Itís not a judgment of the person; chazal say bimakom.... rather it is the reality of the situation. If a Rebbe and a like minded community are important for an FFB (and those that get by without those two are often worse off for it) they are indispensable for a BT. To simply integrate into a yeshivish community without that kind of support system is a risk. Iím sure many BTís have been successful but others may integrate on the surface but never really internalize ideas and ideals that FFBís take for granted. Itís just one aspect of a very complicated issue. This is not to take away from the amazing special people that many BTs are, having grown up in a neighborhood comprised of a large number of wonderful BTs who have my greatest respect and admiration.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #226 on: June 27, 2018, 06:03:57 AM »
Often the same character traits that motivate a BT to make a major life change have the potential to lead him to where an FFB would never go. Itís not a judgment of the person; chazal say bimakom.... rather it is the reality of the situation. If a Rebbe and a like minded community are important for an FFB (and those that get by without those two are often worse off for it) they are indispensable for a BT. To simply integrate into a yeshivish community without that kind of support system is a risk. Iím sure many BTís have been successful but others may integrate on the surface but never really internalize ideas and ideals that FFBís take for granted. Itís just one aspect of a very complicated issue. This is not to take away from the amazing special people that many BTs are, having grown up in a neighborhood comprised of a large number of wonderful BTs who have my greatest respect and admiration.
+1 eloquently said a big part of my point without coming across like a .... There's more also

Offline yzj

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #227 on: June 27, 2018, 08:46:57 AM »
The guy is not to be believed. He twists the Torah to the point that he turns black into white. These people are obligated by the Torah to wear clothing of the other gender? Really? To call it Purim Torah is an insult to Purim Torah....

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/im-a-boy-and-these-are-my-clothes/

From pictures at the OU prayer protest he led last week it looks like heís redonned the black hat, long coat and beard in an attempt to legitimize himself. What big teeth you have, Grandma....


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #228 on: June 27, 2018, 08:56:52 AM »
The guy is not to be believed. He twists the Torah to the point that he turns black into white. These people are obligated by the Torah to wear clothing of the other gender? Really? To call it Purim Torah is an insult to Purim Torah....

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/im-a-boy-and-these-are-my-clothes/

From pictures at the OU prayer protest he led last week it looks like heís redonned the black hat, long coat and beard in an attempt to legitimize himself. What big teeth you have, Grandma....
He says that for Purim there is crossdressing. Is that true?
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #229 on: June 27, 2018, 09:03:10 AM »
He says that for Purim there is crossdressing. Is that true?
Limited
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline elit

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #230 on: June 27, 2018, 09:13:45 AM »
The guy is not to be believed. He twists the Torah to the point that he turns black into white. These people are obligated by the Torah to wear clothing of the other gender? Really? To call it Purim Torah is an insult to Purim Torah....

http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/im-a-boy-and-these-are-my-clothes/

From pictures at the OU prayer protest he led last week it looks like heís redonned the black hat, long coat and beard in an attempt to legitimize himself. What big teeth you have, Grandma....
c'mon give him credit that was a pretty impressive pilpul

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #231 on: June 27, 2018, 09:13:59 AM »
Limited
Is that like being a little bit pregnant?
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Offline cmey

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #232 on: June 27, 2018, 09:21:03 AM »
c'mon give him credit that was a pretty impressive pilpul

In the encyclopedia under the entry of מגלה פנים בתורה שלא כהלכה
they have a picture of this dude...

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #233 on: June 27, 2018, 09:22:54 AM »
Is that like being a little bit pregnant?
No. Firstly it is a matter of controversy with most sources at the very least advocating against it. Secondly even those who allow many only allow swaying one garment and not actually looking like the opposite gender.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #234 on: June 27, 2018, 09:24:40 AM »
No. Firstly it is a matter of controversy with most sources at the very least advocating against it. Secondly even those who allow many only allow swaying one garment and not actually looking like the opposite gender.
Thanks for a better explanation.
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Offline cmey

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #235 on: June 27, 2018, 09:27:36 AM »
Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

Not really. Those that allowed it on Purim allowed it in the form of a masquerade within the Purim festivities where the intent was not to mingle with, or assume the gender of, the opposite sex, and it was apparent to all that that was the context. That specific context did not violate the Torah prohibition, hence its allowance by some as part of the Purim festivies....

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #236 on: June 27, 2018, 09:31:11 AM »
Not really. Those that allowed it on Purim allowed it in the form of a masquerade within the Purim festivities where the intent was not to mingle with, or assume the gender of, the opposite sex, and it was apparent to all that that was the context. That specific context did not violate the Torah prohibition, hence its allowance by some as part of the Purim festivies....
Am I correct to assume that some/many believe it is a violation of the Torah prohibition? My very basic reading would think it was.
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Re: Public letter
« Reply #237 on: June 27, 2018, 09:32:11 AM »
Am I correct to assume that some/many believe it is a violation of the Torah prohibition? My very basic reading would think it was.
Yes
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #238 on: June 27, 2018, 09:36:16 AM »
Yes
WOW!!! If only I could get these type of answers on non-religious questions.
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Online Definitions

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #239 on: June 27, 2018, 10:54:16 AM »
Not really. Those that allowed it on Purim allowed it in the form of a masquerade within the Purim festivities where the intent was not to mingle with, or assume the gender of, the opposite sex, and it was apparent to all that that was the context. That specific context did not violate the Torah prohibition, hence its allowance by some as part of the Purim festivies....
I don't know this sugya at all. But do we find other deoraysas that we use a reason of a mitzvah to say when it's allowed or not?
If anything I'd say that the reason it's allowed on Purim is because it's not considered a לבישה (plus it doesn't say לא יעלה like by klayim (if that helps, I don't remember the sugya of klayim either)). And nothing to do with the reason of the mitzvah.

Unless that's what you're saying.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 10:57:24 AM by Definitions »