Author Topic: Public letter  (Read 78894 times)

Offline cmey

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #260 on: June 28, 2018, 08:49:37 PM »
You can add all the nuance you like. I was just pointing out the incongruity of making that statement in a thread about a guy who is an exception to the stated generalization.

If your point is that he doesn’t fit the typical profile of a BT>OTD you are correct. If your point is that going to yeshiva must not be the answer because it didn’t work for Mike, see above.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #261 on: June 28, 2018, 09:58:43 PM »
If your point is that he doesn’t fit the typical profile of a BT>OTD you are correct. If your point is that going to yeshiva must not be the answer because it didn’t work for Mike, see above.
I literally spelled out my point, which was neither of the things you just suggested.

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #262 on: June 28, 2018, 10:30:23 PM »
You can add all the nuance you like. I was just pointing out the incongruity of making that statement in a thread about a guy who is an exception to the stated generalization.
You are absolutely correct in pointing out the incongruity. I didn't thoroughly read the thread, was just responding to a prior post. Now that I have read more, the guy reminds me a bit of Shmuley Boteach, though I think Boteach just enjoys the spotlight and controversy (he's a brilliant guy, I  remember him in yeshiva), though he mellowed down a bit in recent years (probably thinking about shidduchim).

This guy might be as messed up as Abby Stein. Nothing to do with BT background.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yammer

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #263 on: June 28, 2018, 10:41:22 PM »


Going to a yeshiva and engaging in intense, authentic Torah learning, as well as having the opportunity to be meshamesh talmidei chachamim (a term that is not easily translated to  English) is an opportunity for one to mold his thoughts and hashkafos according to the Torah so that his commitment to a Torah lifestyle becomes firmly eastablished, and creates a foundation that one can build upon for the rest of his life. A BT who does not experience this is at  a great disadvantage.

On the other hand, one can twist the Torah to suit his preconceived notions, judgements, and values, and in that case the Torah he learns simply becomes a tool to further his own ideologies, using his knowledge of the Torah to justify his positions in any way that suits him. In that case his Torah learning wil be detrimental as in the quote of the words of chazal above.

In short, going to yeshiva gives a BT a tremendous opportunity that he would not have had, but is by no means a guarantee, as evidenced by our friend mike....
I would suggest that the main factor in going to yeshiva is blending into society. There are many things that are society norms that they never learn. Being in yeshiva provides them that opportunity.

Offline rs242

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #264 on: June 29, 2018, 08:53:42 AM »
Are we still talking about “mike”? Because he went to Yeshiva, the mir and Bmg.

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #265 on: June 29, 2018, 09:16:54 AM »
Are we still talking about “mike”? Because he went to Yeshiva, the mir and Bmg.
He obviously knew how to blend in. But at some point some screws went missing.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #266 on: June 29, 2018, 10:14:10 AM »
He obviously knew how to blend in. But at some point some screws went missing.

He’s not the first and won’t be the last. David Ingber went from very MO to Chaim Berlin for 5 years before exploring eastern religions then YCT, being ordained by Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, the LSD rainbow tallit guy and then creating his own brand of pseudo-Jewish stuff. And there are others. They are obviously the exception not the rule....
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 10:27:14 AM by Yard sale »

Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #267 on: August 04, 2018, 11:22:12 PM »
.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #268 on: August 04, 2018, 11:26:17 PM »
Rabbi Moskowitz was assigned secular, then identified as ultra-orthodox for twenty years, and now embraces a religiously non-conforming identity.  He has the cultural competency and language to translate beyond the words of the text and to hear the intentionality in the rabbinic voice speaking for social justice and inclusivity.

Rabbi Moskowitz has three ultra-orthodox rabbinic ordinations. He spent a decade in the largest yeshivas in the world and studied the entire Babylonian Talmud. He founded and headed a kollel - a sacred think tank, served as a rabbi at Columbia University, and of a congregation in Harlem. Rabbi Moskowitz explored academic Talmud at Yale and at Jewish Theological Seminary, where he is currently completing a Doctorate in Hebrew Literature.  As one of the leading thinkers at the intersection of trans issues and Jewish thought, he is a sought after lecturer, educator, and researcher.
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Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #269 on: August 05, 2018, 02:07:17 AM »
One more  part of the bibliography: Rabbi Moskowitz is unrelated to @ChaimMoskowitz in any way
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline henche

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #270 on: August 05, 2018, 06:35:46 AM »
One more  part of the bibliography: Rabbi Moskowitz is unrelated to @ChaimMoskowitz in any way

They are brothers

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #271 on: August 05, 2018, 08:20:01 AM »
They are brothers
We are all brothers and sisters!!!
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Re: Public letter
« Reply #272 on: August 05, 2018, 09:48:21 AM »
We are all brothers and sisters!!!
That would make the title pretty meaningless.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sam123

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #273 on: August 05, 2018, 10:01:12 AM »
Rabbi Yom Tov Glaser: Jewish View on Homosexuality
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=65269

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #274 on: August 05, 2018, 10:13:07 AM »
Rabbi Yom Tov Glaser: Jewish View on Homosexuality
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=65269
Got a chuckle out of his masculine and feminine definition. This guy needs to get out more.
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Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #275 on: August 05, 2018, 12:51:08 PM »
Got a chuckle out of his masculine and feminine definition. This guy needs to get out more.
how did you listen to an hr shiur in 12 minutes?🤔  maybe there’s more in the shiur that shows he’s ‘been out more’?
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #276 on: August 05, 2018, 12:54:13 PM »
how did you listen to an hr shiur in 12 minutes?🤔  maybe there’s more in the shiur that shows he’s ‘been out more’?
After the first few minutes it was obvious he was not up on the subject. You really didn't expect me to listen to an hour+, did you?

Someone that thinks water is masculine and a cup is feminine IMHO needs to get out more.
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Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #277 on: August 05, 2018, 12:59:20 PM »
After the first few minutes it was obvious he was not up on the subject. You really didn't expect me to listen to an hour+, did you?

Someone that thinks water is masculine and a cup is feminine IMHO needs to get out more.
his definition is the asserter and the receiver. So in that way they share that characteristic of masculine and feminine
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #278 on: August 05, 2018, 01:13:48 PM »
his definition is the asserter and the receiver. So in that way they share that characteristic of masculine and feminine
So If I dipped a cup in a bucket of water it would then be masculine instead of feminine?  Wait it would be both, no :)
 
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Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Public letter
« Reply #279 on: August 05, 2018, 01:21:32 PM »
So If I dipped a cup in a bucket of water it would then be masculine instead of feminine?  Wait it would be both, no :)
first of what wrong with that-nowadays that’s fine😉
Second of all I don’t think he meant the actual items rather the actions they do.  He was saying the world is full of actions that relate to the masculine and feminine interaction
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible