Author Topic: Shabbulb  (Read 17937 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2016, 03:15:41 PM »
How is covering up a bulb the same as that?
Its not. He said you can't ignite a fire. That is why I asked the question. If you aren't allowed to turn off the light or blow out the candle then something is being left out in the explanation. Can I get an answer now?  :)
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Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2016, 03:16:44 PM »
Are you allowed to turn the light off or blow out the candle?
Sorry I meant extinguish a fire.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2016, 03:18:20 PM »
Interesting point.
If I understand correctly you're saying that the more we give up/inconvenience ourselves for religion the better it is.
Which does make sense.
All I did was ask two simple questions that were not answered.
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Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2016, 03:18:26 PM »
Would you agree that the loopholes make it easier to be observant? Do you see a problem with that or is that a good thing?
Easier in the short term. Depending on the loophole, some may erode the spirit of Shabbos, making it more difficult in the long term.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2016, 03:19:23 PM »
Are you allowed to turn the light off or blow out the candle?
No

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2016, 03:20:17 PM »
Sorry I meant extinguish a fire.
So it is both? You can't ignite or extinguish? I am not trying to trick anyone here. Just trying to get a better understanding.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2016, 03:20:36 PM »
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Online theblakdavid

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2016, 03:20:41 PM »
So it is both? You can't ignite or extinguish? I am not trying to trick anyone here. Just trying to get a better understanding.
Correct

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2016, 03:25:02 PM »
Depending on the loophole, some may erode the spirit of Shabbos,
This is the bottom line. While something might be technically allowed is it in the true spirit of what you are doing.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2016, 03:33:43 PM »
This is the bottom line. While something might be technically allowed is it in the true spirit of what you are doing.
That's not the bottom line, but it is a legitimate issue which must be discussed in many cases.

Which activities or actions erode the spirit of Shabbos (even if no technical violation has taken place) has been debated by the rabbis for centuries. The term for this is "zilzul (degradation of) Shabbos".

Understand, though, that achieving the same result as a forbidden action does not automatically result in zilzul Shabbos. Take putting out a light, for example. Nobody would have an objection to setting up an oil lamp with enough oil to only last until a certain time, or somehow blocking the light.


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2016, 09:20:21 PM »
Rabbi Posen in his sefer on hilchos Shabbos brings down from the chazon ish a fascinating thing.

"Uvdin dechol" is defined in every generation by its gedoly hador.
(In the source he writes that he forgets the source)

ודוק

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2016, 11:01:05 PM »
Rabbi Posen in his sefer on hilchos Shabbos brings down from the chazon ish a fascinating thing.

"Uvdin dechol" is defined in every generation by its gedoly hador.
(In the source he writes that he forgets the source)

ודוק
The Chazon Ish is talking about umbrellas.

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=158&hilite=

Online Sammy82

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2016, 11:41:05 PM »
As mentioned elsewhere in the forums (feel free to link it Tim)-
*We can't eat meat but the is a loophole to shecht it
*We can't carry on Shabbos but there is a loophole to make an eruv
*We can't eat meat and milk, but there is a loophole to wait 3/5/6 hours
*We can't have sex but there is a loophole to get married
*We can't wear 4 corner garments, but you could put strings on the corners
The list goes on and on. It's not loopholes, it's called halacha.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2016, 03:54:32 AM »
The kosher lamp is something that comes out special for Shabbos, and therefore after you finish reading on Friday night, you remember not to shut off the kosher lamp, and instead you turn it, in order to darken the room.

With the Shabbulb, it is designed to use the very "same" lamps that you use all week. During the week, you will shut the lamp since there is no point the run the electricity all night. I'm afraid, that on Shabbos, sometimes people will forget and shut off their lamp instead of flipping the Shabbos cover, since that is something that they do the other 6 days of the week. (Even more so, if sometimes you are halfway falling asleep over a book or newspaper, and your mind may not be the sharpest at that moment as you are about to fall asleep, and you will forget it's Shabbos and shut the switch.)