Shabbulb

[JTZ]

Sorry I meant extinguish a fire.

So it is both? You can't ignite or extinguish? I am not trying to trick anyone here. Just trying to get a better understanding.

[JTZ]

No

Thank You!!!

[theblakdavid]

So it is both? You can't ignite or extinguish? I am not trying to trick anyone here. Just trying to get a better understanding.

Correct

[JTZ]

Depending on the loophole, some may erode the spirit of Shabbos,

This is the bottom line. While something might be technically allowed is it in the true spirit of what you are doing.

[JTZ]

Correct

Thank You!!!

[Cheesecake]

This is the bottom line. While something might be technically allowed is it in the true spirit of what you are doing.

That's not the bottom line, but it is a legitimate issue which must be discussed in many cases.

Which activities or actions erode the spirit of Shabbos (even if no technical violation has taken place) has been debated by the rabbis for centuries. The term for this is "zilzul (degradation of) Shabbos".

Understand, though, that achieving the same result as a forbidden action does not automatically result in zilzul Shabbos. Take putting out a light, for example. Nobody would have an objection to setting up an oil lamp with enough oil to only last until a certain time, or somehow blocking the light.

[churnbabychurn]

Rabbi Posen in his sefer on hilchos Shabbos brings down from the chazon ish a fascinating thing.

"Uvdin dechol" is defined in every generation by its gedoly hador.
(In the source he writes that he forgets the source)

ודוק

[Cheesecake]

Rabbi Posen in his sefer on hilchos Shabbos brings down from the chazon ish a fascinating thing.

"Uvdin dechol" is defined in every generation by its gedoly hador.
(In the source he writes that he forgets the source)

ודוק

The Chazon Ish is talking about umbrellas.

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=158&hilite=

[Sammy82]

As mentioned elsewhere in the forums (feel free to link it Tim)-
*We can't eat meat but the is a loophole to shecht it
*We can't carry on Shabbos but there is a loophole to make an eruv
*We can't eat meat and milk, but there is a loophole to wait 3/5/6 hours
*We can't have sex but there is a loophole to get married
*We can't wear 4 corner garments, but you could put strings on the corners
The list goes on and on. It's not loopholes, it's called halacha.

[Deal Guy]

The kosher lamp is something that comes out special for Shabbos, and therefore after you finish reading on Friday night, you remember not to shut off the kosher lamp, and instead you turn it, in order to darken the room.

With the Shabbulb, it is designed to use the very "same" lamps that you use all week. During the week, you will shut the lamp since there is no point the run the electricity all night. I'm afraid, that on Shabbos, sometimes people will forget and shut off their lamp instead of flipping the Shabbos cover, since that is something that they do the other 6 days of the week. (Even more so, if sometimes you are halfway falling asleep over a book or newspaper, and your mind may not be the sharpest at that moment as you are about to fall asleep, and you will forget it's Shabbos and shut the switch.)

[JTZ]

*We can't eat meat but the is a loophole to shecht it
*We can't carry on Shabbos but there is a loophole to make an eruv
*We can't eat meat and milk, but there is a loophole to wait 3/5/6 hours
*We can't have sex but there is a loophole to get married
*We can't wear 4 corner garments, but you could put strings on the corners
The list goes on and on. It's not loopholes, it's called halacha.

*It looks like a duck
*It quacks like a duck
*It walks like a duck
*It flies like a duck
*It eats like a duck
The list goes on and on. Its non a duck, its called a pig.
We can convince our self of anything.

[12HRS]

*It looks like a duck
*It quacks like a duck
*It walks like a duck
*It flies like a duck
*It eats like a duck
The list goes on and on. Its non a duck, its called a pig.
We can convince our self of anything.

this may have been your worst argument yet

[JTZ]

this may have been your worst argument yet

We are in JS and it is Friday. It wasn't an argument. 

[mmgfarb]

We are in JS and it is Friday. It wasn't an argument. 

Another poor argument

[JTZ]

Another poor argument

OK since you all want to argue today then how about this one. You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. 

[mmgfarb]

OK since you all want to argue today then how about this one. You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. 

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how halachic works.

[JTZ]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how halachic works.

That's like saying because I don't agree about gay marriage I have a fundamental misunderstanding how the supreme court works.

[mmgfarb]

That's like saying because I don't agree about gay marriage I have a fundamental misunderstanding how the supreme court works.

So you're saying that you understand why something like this could be permissible but disagree that it should be?

[JTZ]

So you're saying that you understand why something like this could be permissible but disagree that it should be?

Yes and you just describe a loophole.

[aygart]

Yes and you just describe a loophole.

So stop eating fish during lent