Author Topic: Shabbulb  (Read 13903 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2016, 01:10:32 PM »
Eta notice my addition to your definition
Your addition gives just about anything an out.
Yes. At the heart of your issue with this is that it is being called a loophole for lack of a better term. "Workaround" is better, but it is actually more of a "work with."
At the heart of the issue is not the word being used but the action that is being taken. I understand what you are saying and I just disagree with it.

Example: On certain days I am not allowed to eat meat. If I could find a loophole or workaround for it IMHO it would still be wrong to eat meat.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2016, 01:18:23 PM »
Your addition gives just about anything an out.At the heart of the issue is not the word being used but the action that is being taken. I understand what you are saying and I just disagree with it.

Example: On certain days I am not allowed to eat meat. If I could find a loophole or workaround for it IMHO it would still be wrong to eat meat.
So during those days you shouldn't eat fish since that is a loophole.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2016, 01:22:11 PM »
Would this be an accurate definition of loophole?
-an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
Not for this discussion. When I refer to a halachic loophole, I am not saying the halachah itself was ambiguous or inadequate. I am saying you can achieve the same result as breaking the halachah without actually breaking the halachah, and that the intention of the halachah was never to prevent that result.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2016, 01:25:16 PM »
So during those days you shouldn't eat fish since that is a loophole.
Very good point. If you believe fish is meat then you should not eat it even if your spiritual adviser says it is OK. They do draw the line at chicken.  :)

Saint Thomas Aquinas
“Fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust. Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products.”
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2016, 01:25:36 PM »
It is just the danger of the next generations not knowing the difference between this bulb and another bulb....

The shabbos lamp is very different - The kids know that we are not allowed to close or open a light on shabbos so we are just covering it.... but this shabbos bulb to the kids it looks like we are closing the bulb and they would not see a difference between another one giving them the impression that one is allowed to open or close lights on shabbos.
That is a point worthy of discussion. The poskim who gave their haskamah obviously don't feel this is an issue, but before I personally would use this, I would wait to see if others do have this (or possibly another, e.g. muktzeh) issue.

Offline shimino1

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Re: Re: Shabbos Light Switches
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2016, 01:30:04 PM »
Are you talking about the Kosher Switch (which we all know doesn't have any competent Haskamos) or the new Shabbulb that was announced yesterday and mentioned a couple of posts back? The latter seemingly has a lot of Haskamos with confirmations

ETA: Threads were split (thanks mods!)
Talking about the Kosher Switch. Kosher bulb looks really good...

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2016, 01:31:13 PM »
Very good point. If you believe fish is meat then you should not eat it even if your spiritual adviser says it is OK. They do draw the line at chicken.  :)

Saint Thomas Aquinas
“Fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust. Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products.”
According to your quote they are excluded since they do not rest on the earth or breath the air even though they are meat. That sounds like a very similar loophole.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2016, 01:40:55 PM »
According to your quote they are excluded since they do not rest on the earth or breath the air even though they are meat. That sounds like a very similar loophole.
Meat is just a generic term. What you are not allowed to eat is in the quote. Now if I found a loophole to eat chicken because it is poultry that would be wrong IMHO.

ETA: Not that you need any help but an alligator would be a good one.  :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 01:48:51 PM by JTZ »
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Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2016, 02:06:23 PM »
Meat is just a generic term. What you are not allowed to eat is in the quote. Now if I found a loophole to eat chicken because it is poultry that would be wrong IMHO.

ETA: Not that you need any help but an alligator would be a good one.  :)
Same here. The rule itself that one may not ignite a fire does not include blocking the light.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2016, 02:08:35 PM »
Example: On certain days I am not allowed to eat meat. If I could find a loophole or workaround for it IMHO it would still be wrong to eat meat.
The issue here is that JTZ understands Shabbos as a series of restrictions and limitations, without understanding the concept of "melachah".
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Offline lechatchileh ariber

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2016, 02:24:36 PM »
@JTZ.
The big difference is that with regards to almost all halachos of shabbos the issues are the actions not the outcome.
Therefore if you can accomplish the same outcome without performing the action there's no issue.
I don't sin, I give myself opportunities to repent.

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2016, 03:02:50 PM »
@JTZ.
The big difference is that with regards to almost all halachos of shabbos the issues are the actions not the outcome.
Therefore if you can accomplish the same outcome without performing the action there's no issue.
Would you agree that the loopholes make it easier to be observant? Do you see a problem with that or is that a good thing?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2016, 03:06:12 PM »
Same here. The rule itself that one may not ignite a fire does not include blocking the light.
Are you allowed to turn the light off or blow out the candle?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline lechatchileh ariber

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2016, 03:10:54 PM »
Would you agree that the loopholes make it easier to be observant? Do you see a problem with that or is that a good thing?
Interesting point.
If I understand correctly you're saying that the more we give up/inconvenience ourselves for religion the better it is.
Which does make sense.
I don't sin, I give myself opportunities to repent.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shabbulb
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2016, 03:11:18 PM »
Are you allowed to turn the light off or blow out the candle?
How is covering up a bulb the same as that?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.