Shabbulb

[Cheesecake]

PSA: If you can't answer yes or no please refrain from answering. 

Did you stop beating your wife?

[JTZ]

And sometimes there's a non Muslim terrorist. Nonetheless not the norm.

I didn't say it was the norm. I personally know someone that has been studying for 50+ years and still is not clear.

[JTZ]

Did you stop beating your wife?

PSA: If you can't answer yes or no please refrain from answering. 

[good sam]

I keep being told I don't understand so lets see how much I do understand.

Lets keep it simple for me since I have a hard time understanding.
1 - You are not allowed to turn a light on or off
2 - If you achieve the same results without turning the light on or off it is allowed
Do I have it right?

Wrong. You're not allowed to ignite or extinguish a flame on Shabbos. That's the only question to be asking.

[lechatchileh ariber]

Wrong. You're not allowed to ignite or extinguish a flame on Shabbos. That's the only question to be asking.

?

[Cheesecake]

PSA: If you can't answer yes or no please refrain from answering. 

PSA: If you can't answer yes or no please refrain from answering. 

[lechatchileh ariber]

Not sure if this is going to make matters better or worse, but
כל מה שאסר הקב''ה התיר כנגדה
Loosely translated.
For everything G-d forbade He created a kosher version.

[JTZ]

Wrong.

What part and no double talk.

[JTZ]

For everything G-d forbade He created a kosher version.

That explains everything.

[good sam]

What part and no double talk.

You said it's prohibited to turn a light on, so the shabulb is a loophole. That's incorrect. The Torah does not prohibit turning a light on, there was no electricity when the Torah was written.

The prohibition stems from igniting a flame. It's a very technical question: does this constitute igniting a flame? Since it clearly doesn't, it's not prohibited.

Moreover, what I think you don't get is that we follow the letter of the law only, not the spirit of the law, unless the letter of the law expressly requires us to take into account the spirit of the law (such as with zilzul Shabbos).

[JTZ]

You said it's prohibited to turn a light on, so the shabulb is a loophole. That's incorrect. The Torah does not prohibit turning a light on, there was no electricity when the Torah was written.

The prohibition stems from igniting a flame. It's a very technical question: does this constitute igniting a flame? Since it clearly doesn't, it's not prohibited.

Moreover, what I think you don't get is that we follow the letter of the law only, not the spirit of the law, unless the letter of the law expressly requires us to take into account the spirit of the law (such as with zilzul Shabbos).

You are lumping everything together. I was told many times over that I don't understand what is prohibited. The post you quote I put in the simplest terms my understanding. It had nothing to do with the loophole part.

I get you say it is not a loophole. I get you can cover the light, close the door or anything else that doesn't extinguish/break the fire/circuit. I get this is according to your laws.

I don't follow your laws so of course I am going to look at it differently. What is the big deal anyway? What difference does it matter that someone that does not follow your beliefs thinks differently? A member here thinks me eating fish when meat is prohibited is a loophole. So what, I don't care. If we shared the same beliefs and he came to that conclusion then we would have a problem. I would worry about the members here that say it is a loophole and countless other things that are loopholes.

[aygart]

You are lumping everything together. I was told many times over that I don't understand what is prohibited. The post you quote I put in the simplest terms my understanding. It had nothing to do with the loophole part.

I get you say it is not a loophole. I get you can cover the light, close the door or anything else that doesn't extinguish/break the fire/circuit. I get this is according to your laws.

I don't follow your laws so of course I am going to look at it differently. What is the big deal anyway? What difference does it matter that someone that does not follow your beliefs thinks differently? A member here thinks me eating fish when meat is prohibited is a loophole. So what, I don't care. If we shared the same beliefs and he came to that conclusion then we would have a problem. I would worry about the members here that say it is a loophole and countless other things that are loopholes.

I do not think it is a loophole for you to eat fish then. I was saying that according to your reasoning it should be.

[lechatchileh ariber]

You said it's prohibited to turn a light on, so the shabulb is a loophole. That's incorrect. The Torah does not prohibit turning a light on, there was no electricity when the Torah was written.

The prohibition stems from igniting a flame. It's a very technical question: does this constitute igniting a flame? Since it clearly doesn't, it's not prohibited.

Moreover, what I think you don't get is that we follow the letter of the law only, not the spirit of the law, unless the letter of the law expressly requires us to take into account the spirit of the law (such as with zilzul Shabbos).

What about boneh and makeh  bepatish, I'm not very well versed in the halachic status of electricity but from what I understand that is the main issue. Also, the last time I turned on an led there was no fire.

[JTZ]

I do not think it is a loophole for you to eat fish then. I was saying that according to your reasoning it should be.

Either way I don't have a problem with the conclusion you come to.

[mmgfarb]

What about boneh and makeh  bepatish, I'm not very well versed in the halachic status of electricity but from what I understand that is the main issue. Also, the last time I turned on an led there was no fire.

Boneh is really the only problem with LED's there is no issue of makeh bepatish, it's a common misconception. Also you're right, the only time there is an issue of aish is with incandescent bulbs (possibly florescent bulbs also but I'm not so clear on that). This is all according to most poskim, the Chazon Ish only held the problem was aish and not Boneh of the circuit but we don't pasken like this.

[lechatchileh ariber]

Boneh is really the only problem with LED's there is no issue of makeh bepatish, it's a common misconception. Also you're right, the only time there is an issue of aish is with incandescent bulbs (possibly florescent bulbs also but I'm not so clear on that). This is all according to most poskim, the Chazon Ish only held the problem was aish and not Boneh of the circuit but we don't pasken like this.

Thank you.
I'm up for a shiur on the halachic status of electricity.
DO anyone?

[mmgfarb]

Thank you.
I'm up for a shiur on the halachic status of electricity.
DO anyone?

I'm down maybe JTZ could come and see what it's like to get into the intricacies of a sugya and see the process of how we could to a din.

[gozalim]

Thank you.
I'm up for a shiur on the halachic status of electricity.
DO anyone?

Paging @SBS

[lechatchileh ariber]

Now that this is back...
Check out this article, after that we will get together and learn.      http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/journal/broyde_1.htm
First sefer on the agenda of meorei ohr by Rabbi sz"a

[chinagel]

http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/115133