Author Topic: Shabbat and my United Flight  (Read 30877 times)

Offline henche

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #140 on: November 01, 2016, 11:55:00 PM »
I've asked once already.  Please give me an example of "my needs," that you'd be asked to respect in a similar situation.

Are you asking me?   

Ok, example is you want me to switch seats so that you can sit next to your child.  You'd be asking me to concede something for your needs.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #141 on: November 01, 2016, 11:55:34 PM »
I've asked once already.  Please give me an example of "my needs," that you'd be asked to respect in a similar situation.
someone with a bladder issue who needs to be near the restroom or with a phobia with similar needs
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Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2016, 11:57:04 PM »
That would obviously depend on equipment, but I would guess no more than 160 on the most dense 747. Possibly half that on 777
that seems to be a decent number of options before anyone would need to chas veshalom give up an aisle seat.
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Offline Aaaron

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #143 on: November 01, 2016, 11:59:33 PM »
Are you asking me?   

Ok, example is you want me to switch seats so that you can sit next to your child.  You'd be asking me to concede something for your needs.

Fair enough.  And I think depending on the age it could be a desire rather than a necessity, but I see your point.

If you wanted to sit next to someone you were flying with, i would give you my seat if asked nicely.

Ive done it in the past.

Definitely not a need, but nice nonetheless. 

someone with a bladder issue who needs to be near the restroom or with a phobia with similar needs

Again, not really a need, as an extra 10 seconds to the restroom won't make it or break it in 99.9% of cases.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #144 on: November 02, 2016, 12:05:13 AM »
Fair enough.  And I think depending on the age it could be a desire rather than a necessity, but I see your point.

Definitely not a need, but nice nonetheless. 

Again, not really a need, as an extra 10 seconds to the restroom won't make it or break it in 99.9% of cases.
so be at least as accommodating.

If it is phobia then all reason goes to the wayside. Also with a bladder issue fight attendants in the aisle can be a major difficulty.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #145 on: November 02, 2016, 12:17:26 AM »
so be at least as accommodating.

If it is phobia then all reason goes to the wayside. Also with a bladder issue fight attendants in the aisle can be a major difficulty.

I'm with you.  From the aspect of other passengers, it's always great for them to accommodate.  We're discussing the rights to inconvenience others by making demands or causing delays.  That's what I have a problem with.

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #146 on: November 02, 2016, 12:20:33 AM »
that is not the same thing you wrote above. You write that you respect their belief now you wrote that you respect their right to have a belief which you don't respect.

You're conflating "respecting" with "accommodating." If someone doesn't want to sit next to a woman for religious reasons, I respect that. But I'm not going to personally accommodate that by crunching myself into a middle seat so the guy can have my aisle seat.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #147 on: November 02, 2016, 12:20:57 AM »
I'm with you.  From the aspect of other passengers, it's always great for them to accommodate.  We're discussing the rights to inconvenience others by making demands or causing delays.  That's what I have a problem with.
so where would you draw the line?
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Offline yitrap

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #148 on: November 02, 2016, 12:24:01 AM »
You're conflating "respecting" with "accommodating." If someone doesn't want to sit next to a woman for religious reasons, I respect that. But I'm not going to personally accommodate that by crunching myself into a middle seat so the guy can have my aisle seat.
Would you switch to an aisle seat a row forward?

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #149 on: November 02, 2016, 12:24:55 AM »
Why don't you tell us any situation where you would be willing to concede anything for my religious needs. Then we can work from there.

I shouldn't need to concede anything, and I certainly shouldn't need to concede anything involuntarily (i.e., be forced to switch from an aisle to a middle by a flight attendant because someone claims they can't sit next to some woman). That's the point.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #150 on: November 02, 2016, 12:25:24 AM »
You're conflating "respecting" with "accommodating." If someone doesn't want to sit next to a woman for religious reasons, I respect that. But I'm not going to personally accommodate that by crunching myself into a middle seat so the guy can have my aisle seat.
in what way do you respect it if you don't act in a way that considers his religious needs real which you have shown that you do not by your statements here? You have shown plenty of disrespect here.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #151 on: November 02, 2016, 12:26:11 AM »
Would you switch to an aisle seat a row forward?

If I was asked, I might. But I shouldn't be forced to do so based on some other passenger's alleged/claimed religious beliefs.

Offline aygart

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #152 on: November 02, 2016, 12:26:44 AM »
I shouldn't need to concede anything, and I certainly shouldn't need to concede anything involuntarily (i.e., be forced to switch from an aisle to a middle by a flight attendant because someone claims they can't sit next to some woman). That's the point.
you keep going back to this straw man. Where did anyone say you should be forced to switch?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #153 on: November 02, 2016, 12:28:37 AM »
you keep going back to this straw man. Where did anyone say you should be forced to switch?

It's not a straw man at all. The claim is that Passenger A has a "religious need" that should be accommodated by some other passenger, with the underlying threat, if no one agrees, of a 30- or 60-minute delay when Passenger A deplanes.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #154 on: November 02, 2016, 12:28:40 AM »
I shouldn't need to concede anything, and I certainly shouldn't need to concede anything involuntarily (i.e., be forced to switch from an aisle to a middle by a flight attendant because someone claims they can't sit next to some woman). That's the point.
Has anyone ever seen, or even heard of, an actual case where something like that happened?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #155 on: November 02, 2016, 12:30:03 AM »
in what way do you respect it if you don't act in a way that considers his religious needs real which you have shown that you do not by your statements here? You have shown plenty of disrespect here.

Sitting quietly is all the "respect" any other passenger deserves in any context.

If I board a plane with a ham sandwich, should the vegan seated next to me get to veto my lunch? It's absurd.

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #156 on: November 02, 2016, 12:31:50 AM »
Has anyone ever seen, or even heard of, an actual case where something like that happened?

It has happened — see FlyerTalk, etc. — but the debate here seems to be whether airlines should be able to force people to switch in order to accommodate the alleged "religious need(s)" being discussed here.

Offline shulem92

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #157 on: November 02, 2016, 12:39:56 AM »


alleged "religious need(s)"
How are they "alleged"?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #158 on: November 02, 2016, 12:42:12 AM »
It has happened — see FlyerTalk, etc.
Do you have specific quotes? The way you post it here it doesn't even qualify as anecdotal evidence.

but the debate here seems to be whether airlines should be able to force people to switch in order to accommodate the alleged "religious need(s)" being discussed here.
You seem to be having that debate with yourself.

As I stated before:
You are probably not married.
Once that changes, you might be talking differently about who "deserves" what. (Hint: marriage is not about figuring out who deserves what, but rather that one's spouse is always and at all times entitled to be treated as royalty).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline jsk173

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Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #159 on: November 02, 2016, 12:42:40 AM »
How are they "alleged"?

The airlines don't verify passengers' religion. Any action taken, by the airline or a passenger, would be based on good faith and nothing else.