Author Topic: Shabbat and my United Flight  (Read 30858 times)

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15620
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2016, 02:30:51 PM »
Maybe its because of the many stories that come out of how very frum people are obnoxious themselves

Even if all those stories were true, and the frum people in the stories were 100% at fault (a premise I don't buy), how does that justify being obnoxious to any other frum person? Or for that matter to that same frum person at a different (or even the same) time?

Using such claims as justification, just shows a lack of comprehension of what it means to be in a service business. I think the overall Israeli mentality is one of arrogance, which results in a much lower awareness of what service is about, and it is exacerbated when it comes to frum people.

Just go back several posts and contrast my BA experience with my ELAL experience.

I will take that contrast a step further. I was once booked to go with DW out of TLV on BA. I specifically requested aisle seats across from each other, and was promised that that is what was assigned. Upon boarding, we realized that despite what we requested and were promised, we were assigned adjacent seats. I was (seemingly) obnoxious and refused to be seated that way. The flight attendants had threatened to remove us from the flight, which we said we would do, but they were not one bit obnoxious about it. Eventually someone realized what was going on and agreed to switch seats, and the flight left on time.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online mochjas

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 9699
  • Total likes: 1069
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 123
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium Elite, AA EX PLAT, Jetblue Mosaic, Qatar Gold, United Silver
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2016, 02:34:50 PM »
Even if all those stories were true, and the frum people in the stories were 100% at fault (a premise I don't buy), how does that justify being obnoxious to any other frum person? Or for that matter to that same frum person at a different (or even the same) time?

Using such claims as justification, just shows a lack of comprehension of what it means to be in a service business. I think the overall Israeli mentality is one of arrogance, which results in a much lower awareness of what service is about, and it is exacerbated when it comes to frum people.

Just go back several posts and contrast my BA experience with my ELAL experience.

I will take that contrast a step further. I was once booked to go with DW out of TLV on BA. I specifically requested aisle seats across from each other, and was promised that that is what was assigned. Upon boarding, we realized that despite what we requested and were promised, we were assigned adjacent seats. I was (seemingly) obnoxious and refused to be seated that way. The flight attendants had threatened to remove us from the flight, which we said we would do, but they were not one bit obnoxious about it. Eventually someone realized what was going on and agreed to switch seats, and the flight left on time.
I never said it was justified

Online username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4530
  • Total likes: 602
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2016, 02:37:57 PM »
^^^

Offline jsk173

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 587
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2016, 11:17:47 PM »
I will take that contrast a step further. I was once booked to go with DW out of TLV on BA. I specifically requested aisle seats across from each other, and was promised that that is what was assigned. Upon boarding, we realized that despite what we requested and were promised, we were assigned adjacent seats. I was (seemingly) obnoxious and refused to be seated that way. The flight attendants had threatened to remove us from the flight, which we said we would do, but they were not one bit obnoxious about it. Eventually someone realized what was going on and agreed to switch seats, and the flight left on time.

Your behavior wasn't "seemingly" obnoxious; it was obnoxious.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15620
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2016, 11:30:42 PM »
Your behavior wasn't "seemingly" obnoxious; it was obnoxious.
So did some other frum people think at the time, until someone a little more mature realized that there must have been a real reason for my insistence.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline jsk173

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 587
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2016, 11:32:36 PM »
Which was?

Offline YOSEF

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2185
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2016, 11:39:41 PM »
He doesn't needa answer that.

Offline jsk173

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 587
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2016, 11:48:18 PM »
We're talking about sitting on an airplane here. How private could the rationale have been? What explains two people being able to sit in aisle seats but not one person in an aisle and another in a non-aisle? Obesity? Broken legs?

I've heard of people insisting on sitting next to their spouse, but never someone insisting on *not* sitting next to their spouse.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2016, 11:50:10 PM »
We're talking about sitting on an airplane here. How private could the rationale have been? What explains two people being able to sit in aisle seats but not one person in an aisle and another in a non-aisle? Obesity? Broken legs?

I've heard of people insisting on sitting next to their spouse, but never someone insisting on *not* sitting next to their spouse.
lol
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline henche

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 4183
  • Total likes: 447
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2016, 11:54:00 PM »

Offline joe1234

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 2071
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2016, 11:55:37 PM »
He doesn't needa answer that.
Was that spelling on purpose?  ;D I love the lines where everyone understands it but you could say you never meant it... sort of like a politician...

Offline jsk173

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 587
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: United States
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2016, 11:59:00 PM »
Ah, just read up on Niddah.

Yikes. Almost enough to make one join the alt-right.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15620
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2016, 11:59:47 PM »
We're talking about sitting on an airplane here.
I've heard of people insisting on sitting next to their spouse, but never someone insisting on *not* sitting next to their spouse.
You are probably not married.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline joe1234

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 2071
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2016, 12:01:28 AM »
You are probably not married.
Or(hopefully) not jewish

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1360
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2016, 12:02:34 AM »
I thought it's muttar to sit next to your wife on a plane regardless??  That's what I was always taught...

Offline joe1234

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 2071
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2016, 12:04:08 AM »
I thought it's muttar to sit next to your wife on a plane regardless??  That's what I was always taught...
Definitely not poshut. Ask your lor. Either way it doesn't mean he has to do it....

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1360
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2016, 12:05:25 AM »
Definitely not poshut. Ask your lor. Either way it doesn't mean he has to do it....

Right, and that's my LOR's psak. 

So if someone makes a stink about it and treats the FA's obnoxiously, I'll view it the same way as the Chasidim who delay flights to avoid sitting next to someone of the opposite gender.

Offline joe1234

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 2071
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2016, 12:09:54 AM »
Right, and that's my LOR's psak. 

So if someone makes a stink about it and treats the FA's obnoxiously, I'll view it the same way as the Chasidim who delay flights to avoid sitting next to someone of the opposite gender.
That's ridiculous!! There's an obvious difference here, by Chasidim they know beforehand that there is at least a 50% chance that they will be seated next to a female so if you don't like it don't fly it, whereas over here he specifically asked seats across each other which is within his rights....

Offline Yammer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 3695
  • Total likes: 217
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2016, 12:11:01 AM »
That's ridiculous!! There's an obvious difference here, by Chasidim they know beforehand that there is at least a 50% chance that they will be seated next to a female so if you don't like it don't fly it, whereas over here he specifically asked seats across each other which is within his rights....
But the other passengers don't know....

Offline Aaaron

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 1360
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Shabbat and my United Flight
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2016, 12:12:06 AM »
That's ridiculous!! There's an obvious difference here, by Chasidim they know beforehand that there is at least a 50% chance that they will be seated next to a female so if you don't like it don't fly it, whereas over here he specifically asked seats across each other which is within his rights....

Huh?  There was a mistake.  It's not a clear Halachic issue, so deal with it and don't impose on others.  Same thing.