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« Last edited by yesitsme on August 23, 2018, 02:21:17 PM »

Author Topic: Take Back Lakewood  (Read 259679 times)

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1155 on: March 03, 2017, 12:42:13 AM »
Instead of whining, let's hear some of the "ridiculous" ordinances.
Lakewood lets more crap through than just about anywhere in the US.
I personally know a private person that went through hell when building a private home for himself. He brought a piece of property, and subdivided it. He had problems every step of the way.
This was a few years ago, when developers had a much easier time than they have now. Yet they still managed to make problems for the private person building a home for himself.
 It was before all the activists' movements and groups existed.

Offline MidwestJoe

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1156 on: March 03, 2017, 12:55:22 AM »
I personally know a private person that went through hell when building a private home for himself. He brought a piece of property, and subdivided it. He had problems every step of the way.
This was a few years ago, when developers had a much easier time than they have now. Yet they still managed to make problems for the private person building a home for himself.
 It was before all the activists' movements and groups existed.

My job affords me the opportunity to watch a lot of the zoning planning meetings, I haven't seen any reasonable owner occupied variance get rejected.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1157 on: March 03, 2017, 06:37:55 AM »
I personally know a private person that went through hell when building a private home for himself. He brought a piece of property, and subdivided it. He had problems every step of the way.
This was a few years ago, when developers had a much easier time than they have now. Yet they still managed to make problems for the private person building a home for himself.
 It was before all the activists' movements and groups existed.
Did he try to cram 3 houses where there was supposed to be one?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1158 on: March 03, 2017, 07:40:09 AM »
I personally know a private person that went through hell when building a private home for himself. He brought a piece of property, and subdivided it. He had problems every step of the way.
This was a few years ago, when developers had a much easier time than they have now. Yet they still managed to make problems for the private person building a home for himself.
 It was before all the activists' movements and groups existed.
Don't go on about how terrible they are to private people and then bring examples from someone who was subdividing and probably asking for spot zoning.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1159 on: March 03, 2017, 08:15:44 AM »
My job affords me the opportunity to watch a lot of the zoning planning meetings, I haven't seen any reasonable owner occupied variance get rejected.

+100

Don't go on about how terrible they are to private people and then bring examples from someone who was subdividing and probably asking for spot zoning.

Exactly. Notice how he deflected my question?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1160 on: March 03, 2017, 08:15:53 AM »
Don't go on about how terrible they are to private people and then bring examples from someone who was subdividing and probably asking for spot zoning.
+1
Some of the worst spot zoning has been for such cases where they changed the entire character of the neighborhood
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1161 on: March 03, 2017, 08:50:14 AM »
How about demanding that the homeowner repave the whole street even if no digging goes on? To the tune of 70k? Talk to the small builders, not the developers. And this is not variance stuff, this is Lakewood Township Engineering that reviews construction plans.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1162 on: March 03, 2017, 09:00:26 AM »
How about demanding that the homeowner repave the whole street even if no digging goes on? To the tune of 70k? Talk to the small builders, not the developers. And this is not variance stuff, this is Lakewood Township Engineering that reviews construction plans.

You're the first to complain about that. Haven't heard that ever brought up at any meetings all year and I've seen plenty of small builders applying. So if there is an actual problem it's not a common problem and you can try and change it. I have a feeling that the one project you're referring to was not a run of the mill development. Also if you've been paying attention, TBL was never a campaign against building a single duplex or something small and reasonable. So I don't see the relevance to this thread.

Edit-Ironically the 2 people complaining about small builders getting burnt, one says TBL made things better and one says TBL made things worse.
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Offline cholent

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1163 on: March 03, 2017, 09:03:39 AM »
You're the first to complain about that. Haven't heard that ever brought up at any meetings all year and I've seen plenty of small builders applying. So if there is an actual problem it's not a common problem and you can try and change it. I have a feeling that the one project you're referring to was not a run of the mill development. Also if you've been paying attention, TBL was never a campaign against building a single duplex or something small and reasonable. So I don't see the relevance to this thread.

Sorry, but it is very relevant to this thread. The point is that the township is making life way more difficult for the little guy so that they can then talk about how much they've denied. Whatever TBL's intentions, this is the reality of what's happening
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1164 on: March 03, 2017, 09:06:12 AM »
It is very relevant because the small homeowners are the ones on whom they respond to the backlash. They say we have to pass ordinances to show we are not letting builders do whatever they want. This is fairly new but my builder has a couple of clients stuck in the same situation. It is just the same arbitrary way of doing business.
Not saying it's the fault of TBL at all. It's been going on for years and getting worse. It shows how the developers get special treatment and the regular tax-paying public gets only trouble. I am starting to understand the Revolutionaries' complaint of "taxation without representation"!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 09:09:13 AM by flyingace »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1165 on: March 03, 2017, 09:07:07 AM »
Sorry, but it is very relevant to this thread. The point is that the township is making life way more difficult for the little guy so that they can then talk about how much they've denied. Whatever TBL's intentions, this is the reality of what's happening

They haven't made it worse. Show up to the meetings. Watch them online.
If you have a reasonable application it will get approved. That's what I've witnessed dozens of times.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1166 on: March 03, 2017, 09:11:12 AM »
It is very relevant because the small homeowners are the ones on whom they respond to the backlash. They say we have to pass ordinances to show we are not letting builders do whatever they want. This is fairly new but my builder has a couple of clients stuck in the same situation. It is just the same arbitrary way of doing business.

Yes, you used to be able to get away with no parking spots, no setback, no sidewalk, and a lot of nonsense. The township is now applying more common sense when approving applications. Your builders previous successes came on the backs of their neighbors and neighborhood who got hurt every time a terrible variance was approved.

I agree that they are still not tough enough on all the big builders.
But again if you are a small builder, and you have a conforming application for the most part, with no wild variances you will get approved. You will even get people from TBL to speak up for you.
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1167 on: March 03, 2017, 09:11:43 AM »
You're the first to complain about that. Haven't heard that ever brought up at any meetings all year and I've seen plenty of small builders applying. So if there is an actual problem it's not a common problem and you can try and change it. I have a feeling that the one project you're referring to was not a run of the mill development. Also if you've been paying attention, TBL was never a campaign against building a single duplex or something small and reasonable. So I don't see the relevance to this thread.

Edit-Ironically the 2 people complaining about small builders getting burnt, one says TBL made things better and one says TBL made things worse.
It's not the builders getting burnt. It's the private homeowners being forced to bear undue costs. And this is not only about the application for variances, it's the whole building dept in Lakewood.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1168 on: March 03, 2017, 09:15:11 AM »
It's not the builders getting burnt. It's the private homeowners being forced to bear undue costs. And this is not only about the application for variances, it's the whole building dept in Lakewood.

Again more baseless rhetoric.
Go ahead, pull up some proof from the township meetings.
There's video proof from at least the past 6 months, I'm sure you can find evidence of dozens of private homeowners getting burnt. Until you do there's no point in putting any weight  to your opinion.
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #1169 on: March 03, 2017, 09:22:32 AM »
I just gave you an example. I also told you this is not stuff that you see at the meetings. You're not really paying attention to my responses.