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« Last edited by yesitsme on August 23, 2018, 02:21:17 PM »

Author Topic: Take Back Lakewood  (Read 259161 times)

Offline hocker

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2130 on: June 07, 2017, 12:30:55 AM »
Ouch.
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Offline Moshe123

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2131 on: June 07, 2017, 12:32:28 AM »
WRONG

The vaad wouldn't have had a zchus kiyum without them.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2132 on: June 07, 2017, 12:33:57 AM »
And good night for tonight.

Offline MidwestJoe

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2133 on: June 07, 2017, 12:44:18 AM »
Not willing to go against the RY at the ballot box, is also called actually supporting the vaad and the daas torah.


It is not supporting the Vaad, Had they supported the Vaad, they would have voted for them, like the letter requested.  As far as Daas Torah. that word gets thrown around way to easily now a days. If people felt the letter was Daas Torah, they would have gone out an voted, less then 15% of the frum voted. Yet many couldn't bring themselves to vote against the letter. I am very familiar with this position, it was a position I used to have myself.

One of the Rosh Yeshivas' had he told me to vote a certain way, I would have followed what he said, but knowing him, I also know he never would have told me to.

Offline hocker

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2134 on: June 07, 2017, 01:03:52 AM »
Would love to see the breakdown.

The only thing that was proven tonight was that you can't win the VAAD without the seniors.
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Offline Malachi

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2135 on: June 07, 2017, 01:12:06 AM »
Not willing to go against the RY at the ballot box, is also called actually supporting the vaad and the daas torah.
I went through this thread and it seems like you're just enjoying laughing at people with no real purpose
Denny Crane

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2136 on: June 07, 2017, 02:09:11 AM »
Would love to see the breakdown.

The only thing that was proven tonight was that you can't win the VAAD without the seniors.

I way overestimated the seniors.
Thousands of them spent countless hours fighting eagle ridge but then they don't show up to vote for the only people who would deny it. All I can say is if they don't care about their biggest issues then I surely don't. 
Live forever or die trying.

Offline hocker

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2137 on: June 07, 2017, 02:13:42 AM »
Anyone courted their vote? In past elections the candidates met with them.
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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2138 on: June 07, 2017, 02:50:37 AM »
Some here wrote right away at the beginning that if it becomes TBL vs. Yeshiva they are doomed to lose. There were many times along the line that they wrote that going the direction they did would be counterproductive. These people were attacked for supposedly being pro-overcrowding and not wanting change each time they recommended not taking a hard line position. These recommendations came from having seen over many years what did and didn't work. Unfortunately those who could not understand the nuances needed to actually implement changes rather than just make ineffective noise are the ones who, with their noise have undermined all of the progress made over the last few months. Politics is not about making noise but about getting thing implemented. Continuing to expose things will help, but lawsuits are expensive for all sides involved and will not be a viable way to get things done.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline hocker

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2139 on: June 07, 2017, 02:55:13 AM »
Some here wrote right away at the beginning that if it becomes TBL vs. Yeshiva they are doomed to lose. There were many times along the line that they wrote that going the direction they did would be counterproductive. These people were attacked for supposedly being pro-overcrowding and not wanting change each time they recommended not taking a hard line position. These recommendations came from having seen over many years what did and didn't work. Unfortunately those who could not understand the nuances needed to actually implement changes rather than just make ineffective noise are the ones who, with their noise have undermined all of the progress made over the last few months. Politics is not about making noise but about getting thing implemented. Continuing to expose things will help, but lawsuits are expensive for all sides involved and will not be a viable way to get things done.
If there's anything this election (and the presidential elections) has proven it's that whoever makes more noise wins. Look at Travis's #s.

Personally I think they way forward is lawsuits, and lots of them, with big payouts.

I also believe Travis still has a chance as a write in candidate if he works really hard.

Next year I believe with the seniors cooperation it will be possible to win M&M.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 02:59:29 AM by hocker »
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2140 on: June 07, 2017, 03:10:20 AM »
If there's anything this election (and the presidential elections) has proven it's that whoever makes more noise wins. Look at Travis's #s.

Personally I think they way forward is lawsuits, and lots of them, with big payouts.

I also believe Travis still has a chance as a write in candidate if he works really hard.

Next year I believe with the seniors cooperation it will be possible to win M&M.

Give up on the seniors.
A few candidates met with them a few times, and tried hard to spread their message. There's only so much that seniors allow. And they showed they don't care enough to make a difference.  Travis as a write-in candidate will never win and I doubt he'll even go for it.

The rest of your post I agree with.
Vaad won because they make and control the noise.
Travis did well too even though his message was outrageous and his experience missing.
And the lawsuits will definitely continue but unfortunately the taxpayers will be funding both sides when the township pays a lawyer to lose the obviously corrupt cases.
Live forever or die trying.

Offline MidwestJoe

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2141 on: June 07, 2017, 03:24:26 AM »
Some here wrote right away at the beginning that if it becomes TBL vs. Yeshiva they are doomed to lose. There were many times along the line that they wrote that going the direction they did would be counterproductive. These people were attacked for supposedly being pro-overcrowding and not wanting change each time they recommended not taking a hard line position. These recommendations came from having seen over many years what did and didn't work. Unfortunately those who could not understand the nuances needed to actually implement changes rather than just make ineffective noise are the ones who, with their noise have undermined all of the progress made over the last few months. Politics is not about making noise but about getting thing implemented. Continuing to expose things will help, but lawsuits are expensive for all sides involved and will not be a viable way to get things done.

I am not sure what nuances you are referring to, but it is irrelevant. The bottom line is that the VAAD controls the letter from the Rosh Yeshiva and the Local Media. That is why that won, and no amount of nuance would have changed that. the VAAd themselves have no interest in moderation or negotiation. They take, and will take as much as they can get. Especially now, they know their time is limited. Whether their time will come in 1 year or 6 years. They have been going for broke the last 2 years, and will continue to do so.

Offline MidwestJoe

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2142 on: June 07, 2017, 03:35:38 AM »
If there's anything this election (and the presidential elections) has proven it's that whoever makes more noise wins. Look at Travis's #s.

Personally I think they way forward is lawsuits, and lots of them, with big payouts.

I also believe Travis still has a chance as a write in candidate if he works really hard.

Next year I believe with the seniors cooperation it will be possible to win M&M.

I personally think M&M will be much harder to knock out, specifically Miller. He is very popular, and has done a good job of playing politician for a decade. I voted for Travis, and had no idea who he was. With the last few videos I saw, it made me realize how weak of a candidate he really was. I don't know Sharabi either, but judging by the fact he got the fewest votes, it's likely he was an even weaker candidate. In my opinion Hirsch seemed pretty weak as wall, and I saw all of the videos of him speaking up at meetings.

The only thing these guys had going for them was that they weren't incumbents. I don't know Gruman. Seemed normal, but the seniors are disproportionately Democrats.

It's possible a strong candidate who campaigns hard with the seniors, and meets with the Roshei Yeshiva, or at least one of them, may win, but after this showing, it is going to be harder to convince someone serious to run.

I wonder if the seniors were promised something by the incumbents (like tax reductions), it has been done in the past.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2143 on: June 07, 2017, 11:49:57 AM »
I personally think M&M will be much harder to knock out, specifically Miller. He is very popular, and has done a good job of playing politician for a decade. I voted for Travis, and had no idea who he was. With the last few videos I saw, it made me realize how weak of a candidate he really was. I don't know Sharabi either, but judging by the fact he got the fewest votes, it's likely he was an even weaker candidate. In my opinion Hirsch seemed pretty weak as wall, and I saw all of the videos of him speaking up at meetings.

The only thing these guys had going for them was that they weren't incumbents. I don't know Gruman. Seemed normal, but the seniors are disproportionately Democrats.

It's possible a strong candidate who campaigns hard with the seniors, and meets with the Roshei Yeshiva, or at least one of them, may win, but after this showing, it is going to be harder to convince someone serious to run.

I wonder if the seniors were promised something by the incumbents (like tax reductions), it has been done in the past.
you also cant just get in to talk and meet with the seniors
every development is controlled by the board who decides who can come speak
who's to say the Vaad isn;t in someway controlling that process too
Ask any Lawyer practicing Elder Law if they can give a free seminar to the seniors... the answer is no because the boards dont let anyone come in (paid off by whomever)

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Take Back Lakewood
« Reply #2144 on: June 07, 2017, 11:33:11 PM »
Complete radio silence on social media and blogs of the TBL movement. Not even a statement or a tweet commenting.
Did they disband?