Author Topic: Death Penalty  (Read 1569 times)

Offline Shkop

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2020, 01:16:48 PM »
Two thoughts:

There is no question that the Torah supports capital punishment. It is an open Passuk stated to Noach for all humanity, not just the Jewish people.
"Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed"; for in the image of G-d has G-d made mankind"
This is furthered discussed in Talmud - Meseches Sanhedrin.

The fact that it is possible for the court to err does not make capital punishment wrong. It just means that the court must take their responsibility very seriously. In fact, Meseches Avos exhorts judges repeatedly to remain cautious and on guard. Mistakes happen. Could these jurors be fraudulent? Possibly.  Could they be incompetent? Possibly. If there is any fowl play, they will get their just deserves (אַף הוּא רָאָה גֻלְגֹּלֶת אַחַת שֶׁצָּפָה עַל פְּנֵי הַמַּיִם. אָמַר לָהּ, עַל דַּאֲטֵפְתְּ, אַטְפוּךְ. וְסוֹף מְטִיפַיִךְ יְטוּפוּן) But all this has no bearing on the overarching necessity to incorporate the death penalty into court systems. 
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

Offline Shkop

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2020, 01:25:39 PM »
Conservatives are generally full of contradictions.
If they are full of contradictions, kal vachomer liberals.
They will advocate for the death penalty despite the [statistically insignificant] possibility of a few innocent individuals being wrongly executed,
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
yet they are all against pulling the plug on life-support for patients who are declared brain-dead (even according to the patient's or) family‘s wishes, (ostensibly to preserve the sanctity of even a single human life), despite the fact that every year there are [statistically insignificant] instances of people declared brain-dead who wake up and recover, some while they are being prepped for organ removal....
Sir, if pulling the plug is murder (despite the fact that the brain-dead patient will never recover) then they have no right to pull the plug.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the death penalty, which is about killing someone who deserves to die.
The difference between the two could not be more stark. 
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. The whole conservative philosophy is rife with contradictions.
Well, the tip of the iceberg so far makes plenty of sense. Regarding the rest, whatever contradictions exist, rest assured that the liberals are way ahead of them.
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

Offline aygart

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2020, 01:45:42 PM »
Two thoughts:

There is no question that the Torah supports capital punishment. It is an open Passuk stated to Noach for all humanity, not just the Jewish people.
"Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed"; for in the image of G-d has G-d made mankind"
This is furthered discussed in Talmud - Meseches Sanhedrin.

The fact that it is possible for the court to err does not make capital punishment wrong. It just means that the court must take their responsibility very seriously. In fact, Meseches Avos exhorts judges repeatedly to remain cautious and on guard. Mistakes happen. Could these jurors be fraudulent? Possibly.  Could they be incompetent? Possibly. If there is any fowl play, they will get their just deserves (אַף הוּא רָאָה גֻלְגֹּלֶת אַחַת שֶׁצָּפָה עַל פְּנֵי הַמַּיִם. אָמַר לָהּ, עַל דַּאֲטֵפְתְּ, אַטְפוּךְ. וְסוֹף מְטִיפַיִךְ יְטוּפוּן) But all this has no bearing on the overarching necessity to incorporate the death penalty into court systems. 
Except that the vast majority of those executed, if not all, would be considered by the Torah to be murder rather than a legitimate use of capital punishment.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2020, 01:46:14 PM »
If they are full of contradictions, kal vachomer liberals. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Sir, if pulling the plug is murder (despite the fact that the brain-dead patient will never recover) then they have no right to pull the plug.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the death penalty, which is about killing someone who deserves to die.
The difference between the two could not be more stark.  Well, the tip of the iceberg so far makes plenty of sense. Regarding the rest, whatever contradictions exist, rest assured that the liberals are way ahead of them.
LOL
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2020, 02:04:16 PM »
If they are full of contradictions, kal vachomer liberals. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Sir, if pulling the plug is murder (despite the fact that the brain-dead patient will never recover) then they have no right to pull the plug.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the death penalty, which is about killing someone who deserves to die.
The difference between the two could not be more stark.  Well, the tip of the iceberg so far makes plenty of sense. Regarding the rest, whatever contradictions exist, rest assured that the liberals are way ahead of them.
This presents a wonderful challenge as a writer: how to explain, in writing you can comprehend, that you have no reading comprehension.

Quote from: ExGingi
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Offline aygart

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2020, 02:08:05 PM »
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2020, 03:34:16 PM »
As the mishna says, s'yag l'kop, sh
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Offline Randomex

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2020, 01:33:22 AM »
Except that the vast majority of those executed, if not all, would be considered by the Torah to be murder rather than a legitimate use of capital punishment.

Are you referring to the Torah's standard of evidence for conviction (in a beis din)?
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Offline Randomex

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Re: Death Penalty
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2020, 01:46:35 AM »
https://thelawblog.in/2016/12/27/the-trolley-problem/

“...Similar to the answer which involves saying yes to the train’s diversion but no to the deliberate pushing, the first argument against death penalty distinguishes between ‘killing a person’ and ‘letting a person die’. Hence, the preference for life imprisonment over death penalty. The second school of argument is based on utilitarianism or the principle of ‘greatest good for the greatest number’ as proposed by Jeremy Bentham and thus the methodology doesn’t really create that much of a hindrance since the outcome remains the same.“

(I'll have to get back to you on this one.)
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