Author Topic: Jewish Music With Non-Jewish Origins Master Thread  (Read 146590 times)

Offline asherbarkin

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2012, 01:51:09 PM »
in seriousness downloading songs is illegal. My CD is coming out soon. Dont steal my music, there is no excuse to do it and if you do it you are likely pasul for eidus and if you touch wine its yayin nesech.  The way to do teshuva is to buy it. http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html .

Offline Dan

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2012, 02:00:41 PM »
To be clear I'm not advocating downloading music.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline asherbarkin

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2012, 02:02:00 PM »
Im sorry, I meant the proverbial you for anyone that will listen

Offline SuperFlyer

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2012, 02:03:53 PM »
The way to do tshuva? Okay, will buy some although I don't need them.

Offline Saver2000

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2012, 02:10:13 PM »
in seriousness downloading songs is illegal. My CD is coming out soon. Dont steal my music, there is no excuse to do it and if you do it you are likely pasul for eidus and if you touch wine its yayin nesech.  The way to do teshuva is to buy it. http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html .

Only if you would have bought it otherwise.

Offline elig770

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #65 on: March 05, 2012, 02:15:14 PM »
For the record... Downloading music is not against Halacha b/c according to Jewish law you don't own intellectual property.

Feel free to correct me but I did hear this from sources I consider reliable and I personally trust. I'm not saying I endorse downloading music or anything of the sort... All I'm saying is before you claim someone to be Posul Le'Adus please bring facts and sources....

Offline MarkS

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2012, 02:19:34 PM »
There is an entire sefer (I don't remember the name) on this topic. I skimmed through it once and I remember him saying that Halachicaly it's muttar to download and that if artists want to protect their material they should include a text on the CD saying they are only 'leasing' the CD and not selling it in which case you are responsible to abide by the terms of the lease.

A few years ago several singers started putting that text on their albums (word for word from what was written in this sefer) but for some reason I haven't seen it recently.

It seems singers and poskim agree that it muttar to copy and thus feel a need to come up with a leasing agreement.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:23:47 PM by MarkS »

Offline JEWDA

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2012, 02:28:49 PM »

Music is a labor of love to me it does not pay the bills as of yet. I hope that people hire me but I do other things as well. Now please bug your pathetic ass off me. OK.
Wow I just saw this. I have nothing against you personally I just had to correct a lie.
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Offline mercaz1

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2012, 02:51:09 PM »
i have also heard that it is muttar to copy or download music and is not considered stealing

Offline AsherO

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2012, 02:58:14 PM »
its different. the original artists arent losing money by shlock rock, mbd or weird al yankovic singing a different version. however, downloading illegally is causing a direct loss

Dan's point was that those artists are thieves themselves (they stole parts of the songs they sing) yet they tell you not to steal their music. Hypocrisy, no?

in seriousness downloading songs is illegal. My CD is coming out soon. Dont steal my music, there is no excuse to do it and if you do it you are likely pasul for eidus and if you touch wine its yayin nesech.  The way to do teshuva is to buy it. http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html .

No offense, but your post is flamebait...

There is an entire sefer (I don't remember the name) on this topic. I skimmed through it once and I remember him saying that Halachicaly it's muttar to download and that if artists want to protect their material they should include a text on the CD saying they are only 'leasing' the CD and not selling it in which case you are responsible to abide by the terms of the lease.

A few years ago several singers started putting that text on their albums (word for word from what was written in this sefer) but for some reason I haven't seen it recently.

It seems singers and poskim agree that it muttar to copy and thus feel a need to come up with a leasing agreement.

IIRC some of the non-Jewish download (or maybe it was streaming) sites were putting in their T&Cs that you don't actually own the songs you purchase, you're just paying for the rights to use the music pursuant to their terms.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 03:01:28 PM by AsherO »
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Offline JEWDA

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2012, 03:03:00 PM »
i have also heard that it is muttar to copy or download music and is not considered stealing
I also heard that. And I personally download alot of music from one site that has almost every jewish cd that comes out.
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Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2012, 03:42:50 PM »
I also heard that. And I personally download alot of music from one site that has almost every jewish cd that comes out.
Have you asked a shaila?

Offline JEWDA

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2012, 03:46:38 PM »
Have you asked a shaila?
I heard it straight out from a rabbi.
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Offline sky121

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2012, 04:00:46 PM »

Music is a labor of love to me it does not pay the bills as of yet. I hope that people hire me but I do other things as well. Now please bug your pathetic ass off me. OK.

in seriousness downloading songs is illegal. My CD is coming out soon. Dont steal my music, there is no excuse to do it and if you do it you are likely pasul for eidus and if you touch wine its yayin nesech.  The way to do teshuva is to buy it. http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html .


Do I really wanna take Halacha advice from someone who feels the need to resort to 'dirty' language?
Or listen to some 'heartfelt' music by the same guying swearing on the forums?

Hmm..

Not too classy, eh?
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Offline meshugener

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2012, 04:01:09 PM »
May I know the name (and phone number, if possible) of that rabbi?
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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2012, 04:05:09 PM »
May I know the name (and phone number, if possible) of that rabbi?
I heard the same psak in the name of Rabbi Osdaba http://www.chkosher.com/BeisDinHours.htm
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Offline Red

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2012, 04:16:47 PM »
There is an entire sefer (I don't remember the name) on this topic. I skimmed through it once and I remember him saying that Halachicaly it's muttar to download and that if artists want to protect their material they should include a text on the CD saying they are only 'leasing' the CD and not selling it in which case you are responsible to abide by the terms of the lease.

A few years ago several singers started putting that text on their albums (word for word from what was written in this sefer) but for some reason I haven't seen it recently.

It seems singers and poskim agree that it muttar to copy and thus feel a need to come up with a leasing agreement.

This doesn't necessarily work. For example, if you lease something and violate the lease al pi halacha it nullifies the lease from the beginning meaning you have to return the cd and he has to return your money, based on the assumption (closer to a fact) that no artist is really willing to return the money if the "lease" is violated. This proves what it really is, a sale. I'm not saying this gives you a right to copy it, but it does nullify the "lease".

Offline asherbarkin

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2012, 04:37:59 PM »
read this http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html

and I am a singer and I am not cool with anyone stealing my music.  Let this be public knowledge to anyone here. If one wants my music that is being sold then buy it, if one can't afford it Ill give a free copy, just email me. You may not steal my music.


Switching to to first person for effect

In fact I will likely offer my CD for download and if you dont like it you can destroy it and you do not have to pay. But if you do like it you must pay. Its a chaval for a Rabbi to embarrass Hashem kv"y by stipulating that its OK to steal. If you wouldn't buy it you wouldn't be listening to it, and you are going to steal at least you should know that its illegal and immoral

My wife, myself, my children, my parents and all else of those who invested resources into my music do not necessarily want our investment to go to ashes because some Sodomite announced that its OK to steal it. I want to make sure that this is clear in advance.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 04:42:26 PM by asherbarkin »

Offline JEWDA

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2012, 04:46:33 PM »
read this http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html

and I am a singer and I am not cool with anyone stealing my music.  Let this be public knowledge to anyone here. If one wants my music that is being sold then buy it, if one can't afford it Ill give a free copy, just email me. You may not steal my music.


Switching to to first person for effect

In fact I will likely offer my CD for download and if you dont like it you can destroy it and you do not have to pay. But if you do like it you must pay. Its a chaval for a Rabbi to embarrass Hashem kv"y by stipulating that its OK to steal. If you wouldn't buy it you wouldn't be listening to it, and you are going to steal at least you should know that its illegal and immoral

My wife, myself, my children, my parents and all else of those who invested resources into my music do not necessarily want our investment to go to ashes because some Sodomite announced that its OK to steal it. I want to make sure that this is clear in advance.
Sure, Rabbi asher barkin!! Thers only one rabbi in the whole world.
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Offline Red

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Re: MBD - Yidden!
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2012, 04:48:49 PM »
read this http://www.torah.org/learning/honesty/class64.html

and I am a singer and I am not cool with anyone stealing my music.  Let this be public knowledge to anyone here. If one wants my music that is being sold then buy it, if one can't afford it Ill give a free copy, just email me. You may not steal my music.


Switching to to first person for effect

In fact I will likely offer my CD for download and if you dont like it you can destroy it and you do not have to pay. But if you do like it you must pay. Its a chaval for a Rabbi to embarrass Hashem kv"y by stipulating that its OK to steal. If you wouldn't buy it you wouldn't be listening to it, and you are going to steal at least you should know that its illegal and immoral

Sorry I didn't read the link you posted, because as most of these kind of discussions go there are many Rabonim on each side and everyone should follow what their Rav says. As far as it being illegal, the sugya of dina d'malchusa dina is a very complicated one and just because it is illegal doesn't mean it's assur. And as far as it being immoral or unethical, that may very well be however that still doesn't make it assur. (Again i'm not condoning it or even paskening that it's muttar however it's not pashut at all).