Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 48536 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2017, 12:46:32 PM »
OTOH, maybe cutting out some of the "Charity" that goes to "Progressive" causes might actually be a good thing.

You've got to see the silver lining in everything.
No silver lining in less charity.
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Online ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #121 on: September 28, 2017, 12:48:27 PM »
I was going to say something similar, but any big donors are still going to get the charitable deduction. The guy who gives $5k-$10k a year might not itemize anymore, but nothing changes for the 100k donors
But I am sure that the Frum big donor will continue giving צדקה regardless, and will not reduce their giving.
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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #122 on: September 28, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »
No silver lining in less charity.
If the Charity was true charity, I would agree with you, but very often it is a disguise for political agenda activism, and in many others is just another way just creates fat salaries for people that run the charities (universities, Red Cross, etc. etc.).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #123 on: September 28, 2017, 12:56:21 PM »
If the Charity was true charity, I would agree with you, but very often it is a disguise for political agenda activism, and in many others is just another way just creates fat salaries for people that run the charities (universities, Red Cross, etc. etc.).
It is hard to weed out the good from the bad. I guess the way I look at it the more given to charity will increase the chance more is going for good. I try not to look at the opposite.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #124 on: September 28, 2017, 01:12:54 PM »
But I am sure that the Frum big donor will continue giving צדקה regardless, and will not reduce their giving.
I am sure that many calculate the deduction when calculating how much to give.
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Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #125 on: September 28, 2017, 01:43:45 PM »
If the Charity was true charity, I would agree with you, but very often it is a disguise for political agenda activism, and in many others is just another way just creates fat salaries for people that run the charities (universities, Red Cross, etc. etc.).

Cant give this enpugh likes. There is almost no oversight on charity operations. Too many have operating expenses that are many multiple of distributed funds. For a lot of foundatioms it seems like their sole purpose is to support family members with lavish salaries at taxpayer expense. None of this is going to be fixed by this type of tax reform, but if it were it could fix a big part of the revenue problem
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #126 on: September 28, 2017, 01:52:39 PM »
@ExGingi I'm surprised at you. I think here the Rebbe's approach would much more strongly agree with @ChaimMoskowitz ...

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #127 on: September 28, 2017, 02:32:07 PM »
@ExGingi I'm surprised at you. I think here the Rebbe's approach would much more strongly agree with @ChaimMoskowitz ...
Never underestimate the value of איפכא מסתברא  ;)
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #128 on: September 28, 2017, 02:36:41 PM »
I think here the Rebbe's approach would much more strongly agree with @ChaimMoskowitz ...
I get that a lot.  :)
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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #129 on: September 28, 2017, 02:40:09 PM »
I am sure that many calculate the deduction when calculating how much to give.
Probably true. But wouldn't we be in a much better world if everything would be considered just on its merits, rather than ulterior benefits? The tax code, which is bloated and convoluted, is a hindrance on American Exceptionalism, and so many other values which are the basis of the establishment of the US form of government.

Don't get me wrong. I directly benefit from this convoluted situation. People consult with me, and taxes are very often a major part of the equation. But the fact that so many accountants, lawyers, and other professionals benefit from it, not to mention the huge Washington bureaucracy that lives off it (even if we talk only about the IRS), doesn't make it right. There would be paid if we moved to a flat tax, or a consumption-based tax TO REPLACE the entire current IRC, but that paid would be soon forgotten by the growth and opportunities created.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #130 on: September 28, 2017, 02:42:26 PM »
Probably true. But wouldn't we be in a much better world if everything would be considered just on its merits, rather than ulterior benefits? The tax code, which is bloated and convoluted, is a hindrance on American Exceptionalism, and so many other values which are the basis of the establishment of the US form of government.

Don't get me wrong. I directly benefit from this convoluted situation. People consult with me, and taxes are very often a major part of the equation. But the fact that so many accountants, lawyers, and other professionals benefit from it, not to mention the huge Washington bureaucracy that lives off it (even if we talk only about the IRS), doesn't make it right. There would be paid if we moved to a flat tax, or a consumption-based tax TO REPLACE the entire current IRC, but that paid would be soon forgotten by the growth and opportunities created.
It is not calculating a benefit. It means that more odds available when 40 percent comes off of taxes.
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Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #131 on: September 29, 2017, 12:52:19 AM »
Loss of the state/local tax deduction makes it even worse for charity.
Correct. That loss, and property tax loss, will have the little guy opting for the higher standard deuction instead, and charity loses out.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2017, 11:10:40 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/26/for-some-in-middle-class-trump-plan-would-mean-tax-increase.html

http://tpc-election-calculator.urban.org/

In a effort to simplify the tax code, Trump/Republicans want to drop all the $4,050 exemptions that you get for every member in your household and instead replace that with raising the standard deduction from $12,700 to $30,000, without having any personal exemptions . For a family of 4 (2 kids), that is fine since they will get $30,000 tax free instead of $28,900 (4x $4050 + 12,700). But for a family with let's say 5 kids it is a disaster. Instead of being able to earn $41,050 tax free ($4,050 x 7 + $12,700), you will now only get a standard deduction of $30,000. They are in effect treating a family with 5 or 6 kids, the same as a family with 1 or 2 kids.

Is there any effective way to contact the Republican congressman and senators and tell them that its ok to want to simplify the tax code and to want to remove all the personal exemptions, but they can't to that on the backs of large families. It makes no sense to make one standard deduction of $30,000 for both small and large families, and no longer have exemptions for each family member.

Who wants to help me figure out if the expanded child tax credit offsets the exemption loss, or not?

Also, is the additional child tax credit, refundable?

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2017, 01:19:56 AM »
Who wants to help me figure out if the expanded child tax credit offsets the exemption loss, or not?

Also, is the additional child tax credit, refundable?

The additional child tax credit is not refundable.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2017, 01:23:59 AM »
Its not too late to reach out to your congressman. The more complaints they get, may cause a change.

According to various reports that I have read, large families will lose out badly.

Also, the $5,000 pre tax employer dependant care fsa will disappear as well.