Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 49733 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2017, 02:50:34 PM »
I did a quick recalc of my 2016 return. Let's just say I'm not in favor of this bill. The loss of the state/city income tax deductions,  exemptions, and dependant care FSA are nowhere near fully offset by the changes to the marginal rates and the child tax credit.

Offline ar

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2017, 01:30:36 AM »
I'm working here for over an hour calculating all different scenarios based on families with 2-7 kids, and income between 80-150K

My analysis is that most homeowners will lose out under Trumps plan since it caps interest deduction & state/property taxes. The rest of the concerns regarding larger families not getting the personal deduction is not accurate since Trump is raising the CTC (child tax credit) to $1600 per child and raising the income threshold for CTC to 230K for married filers.

Bottom line, anyone owninng a house in NY/NJ and paying state, local & property taxes over 10K will need to pay between 1-3K more in federal taxes because of Trump.

Crazy - I hope this doesn't pass

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2017, 01:43:27 AM »
The rest of the concerns regarding larger families not getting the personal deduction is not accurate since Trump is raising the CTC (child tax credit) to $1600 per child and raising the income threshold for CTC to 230K for married filers.
Might be true for children up to the age of 17.
But how many people have dependants into their 20's at home and in college, that you can't claim $1600 of child tax credit for, yet you are losing $4,050 exemption for each one of them, plus the loss of your own and your spouses exemption?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #138 on: November 06, 2017, 08:57:22 PM »
They just added back the deduction for up to $5,000 of employer-provided dependent-care assistance.

https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/summary_of_chairman_amendment.pdf

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #139 on: November 07, 2017, 10:38:37 AM »
The plan repeals QTR which allowed educational institutions to pay for their employees dependents tution tax free, something Yeshivas took advantage of. All of those wages will now be subject to 15% payroll tax plus the employees tax rate. Will the Yeshiva employees be able absorb that hit by themselves? Can the Yeshiva's budgets afford to compensate the employees for the additional tax they will have to pay without raising tution? Overall this is not looking good for the average frum family.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #140 on: November 07, 2017, 12:18:11 PM »
Overall this is not looking good for the average frum family.
FTFY
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #141 on: November 07, 2017, 02:00:52 PM »
I fully expect the SALT and other deduction removals to be changed, even if not entirely preserved.

That said, it is with no subtlety that this tax plan favors first corporations, then high income earners, then middle class. Like most things Trump does, the first offer is "screw you" with the hopes of getting the other side to negotiate their way to something only slightly less detrimental for themselves. So far this strategy hasn't worked very well in the political arena - the other side doesn't engage the way people who are negotiating for their own interests would.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #142 on: November 07, 2017, 02:32:07 PM »
FTFY
No fix necessary, I meant average frum family.
Frum families tend to have more children than the average family putting them at a larger disadvantage with this proposal. And secondly the bulk of frum families in America live in states with a high state income tax and real estate tax which will adversely affect them more than a family for example in Wyoming.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #143 on: November 07, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
No fix necessary, I meant average frum family.
Frum families tend to have more children than the average family putting them at a larger disadvantage with this proposal. And secondly the bulk of frum families in America live in states with a high state income tax and real estate tax which will adversely affect them more than a family for example in Wyoming.
Yes. Indeed. The average frum family does seem to be worse off with this plan. Penalizing large families is bad public and economic policy. Just look at Europe's and Japan's shrinking population problems. The Japanese haven't figured out what to do yet, and the Europeans imported Muslims to make up from shrinking populations, with very significant unintended consequences.

I actually have very mixed feelings about this. While the plan does away with all kinds of special interests and subsidies, it is just a tweak rather than an overhaul - which is what this country needs. QTR (along with many other provisions) are highly discriminatory based on a person's employer. What we need is a LEVEL playing field, where people can make decisions based on the actual merits, rather than having to figure out tax consequences of the decision.

I have clients who take advantage of QTR to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year. This is also beneficial to the employers, as they save on their FICA and workers comp! I would hate to see my clients lose that benefit (though I believe a workaround will be found), but I really think that the fact that the treatments of a person's income should be different based on where he or she works, or the ability to purchase health insurance be tied to the workplace, is something that it is high time America puts in its dark past.
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Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #144 on: November 07, 2017, 04:53:12 PM »
They just added back the deduction for up to $5,000 of employer-provided dependent-care assistance.

https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/summary_of_chairman_amendment.pdf
Nice.
An amendment is as good as the actual law?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #145 on: November 07, 2017, 04:55:49 PM »
Nice.
An amendment is as good as the actual law?

Neither one is actual law, but yes an amendment would be the same as the original bill.

But this QTR thing is a huge blow. Can also knock many Rebbeim and teachers off of Medicaid.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 05:07:56 PM by yitzf »

Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #146 on: November 07, 2017, 05:21:28 PM »
How would this tax plan look different if people were able to vote on it instead of elected officials? Would that be a better structure?

I'm asking this only partly hypothetically- we almost have the technology today to get rid of elected officials entirely and replace them by giving voters the ability to weigh in on every issue directly.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #147 on: November 07, 2017, 05:26:06 PM »
How would this tax plan look different if people were able to vote on it instead of elected officials? Would that be a better structure?

I'm asking this only partly hypothetically- we almost have the technology today to get rid of elected officials entirely and replace them by giving voters the ability to weigh in on every issue directly.

The Founders chose a Representative Democracy over a Direct Democracy quite deliberately. 

ETA:  Here's an easy read:

http://www.economist.com/node/18586520
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 05:31:51 PM by Boruch999 »

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #148 on: November 08, 2017, 07:46:55 PM »
Were there any amendments added today?

Offline yzj

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #149 on: November 08, 2017, 10:56:29 PM »
Neither one is actual law, but yes an amendment would be the same as the original bill.

But this QTR thing is a huge blow. Can also knock many Rebbeim and teachers off of Medicaid.

I donít think people realize the enormous impact to the entire Frum community here. If QTR is eliminated it will affect almost everyone with kids. Schools will have to raise tuition dramatically to retain rabbeim who will now have to pay for private health insurance and taxes on their tuition benefits. This will effectively lower their take home pay by tens of thousands of dollars. QTR is what allows the rabbeim and morahs to work for the relatively low salaries they receive right now. There is no way that the best and the brightest will stay without compensation for their lost income. And every one of us will be footing that bill. We have to reach out to our elected officials to tell them that this issue is of paramount importance to our community and get them to intervene before it is too late...