Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 49567 times)

Offline hachover

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #165 on: November 09, 2017, 10:02:19 PM »
That cutting business taxes doesn't necessitate the specific changes for individuals that they proposed.

That's not what you said. And I never implied that either. The two facts at hand are business tax down, individual up. You seemed to be arguing that money from individual could be meaningfully raised from the top or bottom of the pyramid. Now I have no idea what's up, but if your last statement is the point you were trying to make I'm not standing in your way
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #166 on: November 09, 2017, 10:47:25 PM »
That's not what you said. And I never implied that either. The two facts at hand are business tax down, individual up. You seemed to be arguing that money from individual could be meaningfully raised from the top or bottom of the pyramid. Now I have no idea what's up, but if your last statement is the point you were trying to make I'm not standing in your way
I never said anything remotely close to this (bolded). You pointed out that they had to get the money from the upper middle class because no other segment could fill the gap. I pointed out that once revenue neutral is out the door, it doesn't have to come from anyone.

Also (totally separate point), CPA mentioned the fact that some of the highest earners will get some of the biggest cuts. Not sure where that fits into your tidy cuts - you may not be able to raise more revenue from them, but that's not a reason to lower revenue from them.

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #167 on: November 10, 2017, 06:33:44 AM »
I believe the Senate cannot raise the debt by more than 1.5T over the next 10 years so the cuts in business tax rates as well as estate tax have to be offset to some degree hence the repeal of SALT.
I quickly looked through the Senant proposal and I did not see anything regarding QTR. Which means there is hope, that assuming both bills pass, QTR can survive reconciliation.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #168 on: November 11, 2017, 07:44:32 PM »
Agreed, this is huge. The problem is that it doesn't look like they are allowing any amendments on the House floor so not sure if much can be done at this point. The Senate is expected to release their version tomorrow so we'll have to see what they have in mind, but the Senate is being even more fiscally constrained so I'm not too optimistic. I guess there could be a chance once they go to conference.

This affects graduate student at universities also so we're not the only ones in this, but of all the people screaming we are still a very small constituency.

We definitely need to raise awareness.
How do universities use QTR?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #169 on: November 11, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »
How do universities use QTR?
They don't charge 50k tuition to PhD students involved in research etc

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #170 on: November 11, 2017, 08:03:35 PM »
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 08:08:39 PM by Deal Guy »

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #171 on: November 11, 2017, 08:59:57 PM »
http://hamodia.com/2017/11/07/local-accountants-gauge-effects-tax-bill-orthodox-community/

Another Lakewood-based accountant, Menachem Abraham, said that, besides the official changes called for by the legislation, the proposal could also stand to affect low-income families.

“One thing that could be a hit is that taking away deductions for each child will raise their regular income. That could make it hard for people who presently qualify for public assistance programs,” he told Hamodia.



Does anyone have a clue what he means? How does taking away deductions for each child (exemptions), raise regular income? Exemptions and deductions are taken AFTER AGI. So how would it affect people's programs?


Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #172 on: November 11, 2017, 11:10:18 PM »
They don't charge 50k tuition to PhD students involved in research etc
So how does this work in yeshivas in practice? Do they somehow report the tuition waivers for anyone receiving a break?

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #173 on: November 12, 2017, 12:10:37 AM »
http://hamodia.com/2017/11/07/local-accountants-gauge-effects-tax-bill-orthodox-community/



Does anyone have a clue what he means? How does taking away deductions for each child (exemptions), raise regular income? Exemptions and deductions are taken AFTER AGI. So how would it affect people's programs?

I'm not that familiar with how the programs work but I believe most of them look at AGI and not taxable income in which case you are correct that it would not affect being eligible for programs (there are some above the line items that are on the chopping block like student loan interest and the educater deduction, but these are small items)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #174 on: November 12, 2017, 06:58:58 AM »
So how does this work in yeshivas in practice? Do they somehow report the tuition waivers for anyone receiving a break?
IINM QTR doesn't get reported anywhere (definitely not on the individual level - maybe a non-profit would report it as a lump sum expenditures on their books - IDK)  It's just something that exists on the books/bylaws and subject to legal scrutiny in case there was an investigation.
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Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #175 on: November 12, 2017, 08:49:28 AM »
So how does this work in yeshivas in practice? Do they somehow report the tuition waivers for anyone receiving a break?
No, it's not a deduction, they are totally excluded from gross income.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #176 on: November 12, 2017, 09:05:25 AM »
So how does this work in yeshivas in practice? Do they somehow report the tuition waivers for anyone receiving a break?
Also. Many yeshivas (or at least some divisions thereof) are structured as religious corporations (congregations) and don't have to file there own tax returns. QTR doesn't get reported on the individual side at all.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #177 on: November 12, 2017, 11:36:32 AM »
I guess where I'm going with this is how would its repeal affect yeshivas in practice? Are they suddenly going to be required to include the tuition waiver as income on the rebbeim's paychecks (or some sort of reporting for anyone receiving a waiver/reduction I guess)? What's to stop them from making different tiers of tuition or some other creative method to avoid the problem?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #178 on: November 12, 2017, 03:14:48 PM »
I guess where I'm going with this is how would its repeal affect yeshivas in practice? Are they suddenly going to be required to include the tuition waiver as income on the rebbeim's paychecks (or some sort of reporting for anyone receiving a waiver/reduction I guess)? What's to stop them from making different tiers of tuition or some other creative method to avoid the problem?

The Yeshiva would need to report the value of the waiver as compensation on the W-2. The Yeshiva would need to pay its portion on social security and medicare tax.
QTR also applies when for example they pay the tuition for a Rebbi's (in a boys elementary school) girls and high school tuition at other schools.

Offline EJB

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #179 on: November 12, 2017, 03:46:14 PM »
I guess where I'm going with this is how would its repeal affect yeshivas in practice? Are they suddenly going to be required to include the tuition waiver as income on the rebbeim's paychecks (or some sort of reporting for anyone receiving a waiver/reduction I guess)? What's to stop them from making different tiers of tuition or some other creative method to avoid the problem?
So in summary

1. Yes
2. That’s probably tax fraud but we’ll wait and see. They could possibly turn more tuition $ into fees and waive the fees, idk.