Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 138414 times)

Offline ADG

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 1460
  • Total likes: 79
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: BK
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #240 on: November 16, 2017, 11:25:07 AM »
The only fool is the one who comes up with opinions without being willing to review the facts. That includes most (all?) politicians.

You are participating in trollish behavior  ;D

Offline CPA

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 0
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #241 on: November 16, 2017, 01:55:53 PM »
The bill just past in the House

Offline ADG

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 1460
  • Total likes: 79
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: BK
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #242 on: November 16, 2017, 02:04:27 PM »
The bill just past in the House

To be expected. The senate is were the battle will be.

Offline CPA

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 0
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #243 on: November 17, 2017, 07:41:52 AM »
The deduction for Yeshiva tution did not make it out of  Committee, the reduction of tax on Craft Beer did. Apparently the Craft beer lobby was more effective than the Yeshiva lobby  ??? If nothing else we may have cheaper beer - I'll drink to that.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3810
  • Total likes: 826
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #245 on: November 17, 2017, 03:03:01 PM »
I saw a bunch of versions of this story, but this one gives the full context.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/11/17/this-remarkable-angry-exchange-between-senators-unmasks-the-gops-tax-cut-lies/

What was the rationale for rejecting Wydens amendment? It would've gone a long way to helping the messaging if the bill.

Offline Boruch999

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 1929
  • Total likes: 186
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #246 on: November 18, 2017, 12:32:09 PM »
I saw a bunch of versions of this story, but this one gives the full context.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/11/17/this-remarkable-angry-exchange-between-senators-unmasks-the-gops-tax-cut-lies/

What was the rationale for rejecting Wydens amendment? It would've gone a long way to helping the messaging if the bill.

Quote
* WHY REPUBLICANS ARE RUSHING THE TAX BILL THROUGH: The House passed its version of tax “reform” yesterday, and the New York Times comments on the breakneck speed of the process:


An article that puts reform in quote marks is admitting to being complete spin.  Find another source for the facts.

Online skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3810
  • Total likes: 826
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #247 on: November 18, 2017, 06:07:00 PM »

An article that puts reform in quote marks is admitting to being complete spin.  Find another source for the facts.
I'm sorry, but that's a really dumb response. This amendment was proposed, and then rejected. Unless you have a source that disputes those facts, I'm legitimately looking for an explanation. Maybe there is one, but so far I haven't seen it.

Online yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10469
  • Total likes: 3831
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #248 on: November 18, 2017, 07:04:54 PM »
I'm sorry, but that's a really dumb response. This amendment was proposed, and then rejected. Unless you have a source that disputes those facts, I'm legitimately looking for an explanation. Maybe there is one, but so far I haven't seen it.
I agree. Just that you know. :)

Offline Deal Guy

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 4957
  • Total likes: 131
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 9
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #249 on: November 19, 2017, 12:49:12 AM »
The deduction for Yeshiva tution did not make it out of  Committee, the reduction of tax on Craft Beer did. Apparently the Craft beer lobby was more effective than the Yeshiva lobby  ??? If nothing else we may have cheaper beer - I'll drink to that.
Where did you see that the tuition deduction didn't make it out of committee?

Is it 100% dead now, or can it still be put in the senate plan, so its worth to contact senators?

Lets say it is not in the plan that the senate passes, can it still be put in, when the House and Senate plans go to conference? Or, in order for it to be addressed in conference, it needs to have been included in either the House or Senate plans?

Offline CPA

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 0
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #250 on: November 19, 2017, 10:02:48 AM »
Where did you see that the tuition deduction didn't make it out of committee?

Is it 100% dead now, or can it still be put in the senate plan, so its worth to contact senators?

Lets say it is not in the plan that the senate passes, can it still be put in, when the House and Senate plans go to conference? Or, in order for it to be addressed in conference, it needs to have been included in either the House or Senate plans?
It can still technically be added in however it is highly unlikely. The real chance for the tuition deduction to have been added to the bill was in committee, but it appears it was either not lobbied sufficiently amongst the committee members or there was strong opposition to it.   

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #251 on: November 19, 2017, 11:46:54 AM »
It can still technically be added in however it is highly unlikely. The real chance for the tuition deduction to have been added to the bill was in committee, but it appears it was either not lobbied sufficiently amongst the committee members or there was strong opposition to it.
I doubt the current political climate is conducive to introducing a tuition deduction.

It will be seen as a subsidy for the rich that send to private schools. The fact that a frum Yid will send to a private school regardless of their financial situation, doesn't show up on anyone's radar screen, and even if it would, is (unfortunately) not enough of a political reason to support it.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CPA

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 0
  • Total likes: 4
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #252 on: November 19, 2017, 12:22:33 PM »
I doubt the current political climate is conducive to introducing a tuition deduction.

It will be seen as a subsidy for the rich that send to private schools. The fact that a frum Yid will send to a private school regardless of their financial situation, doesn't show up on anyone's radar screen, and even if it would, is (unfortunately) not enough of a political reason to support it.
The proposed deduction was specifically for religious schools (30% of the curriculum had to be religious based) not privite school. The whole bill is seen as benefiting the rich this would not have made that much of a difference in public opinion.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #253 on: November 28, 2017, 04:22:26 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-28/the-rich-don-t-need-a-college-subsidy

Didn't notice this anywhere before. I'm not a big proponent of 529 plans, but if they can be used to pay for tuition at any level, that's actually help for (certain) frum families. And while the writer's logic seems to be correct in that it helps the "rich", we know that a large frum family making $150,000 is far from rich, yet will send all children to "private" schools.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yitzf

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2623
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #254 on: November 28, 2017, 04:27:46 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-28/the-rich-don-t-need-a-college-subsidy

Didn't notice this anywhere before. I'm not a big proponent of 529 plans, but if they can be used to pay for tuition at any level, that's actually help for (certain) frum families. And while the writer's logic seems to be correct in that it helps the "rich", we know that a large frum family making $150,000 is far from rich, yet will send all children to "private" schools.

Unless you start saving for tuition before the child starts school and the fund has gains, how would a 529 help frum families?

Online skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3810
  • Total likes: 826
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #255 on: November 28, 2017, 04:50:20 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-28/the-rich-don-t-need-a-college-subsidy

Didn't notice this anywhere before. I'm not a big proponent of 529 plans, but if they can be used to pay for tuition at any level, that's actually help for (certain) frum families. And while the writer's logic seems to be correct in that it helps the "rich", we know that a large frum family making $150,000 is far from rich, yet will send all children to "private" schools.
I'm assuming you know this already, but there is currently a way to accomplish most of what a 529 does and spend it on yeshiva tuition - Coverdell ESA. The limits are ridiculously low though ($2k per kid per year) and there's no NYS income tax deduction like on the 529. I've set them up for my kids, but lately I've been thinking it's more trouble than it's worth.
Unless you start saving for tuition before the child starts school and the fund has gains, how would a 529 help frum families?
You're very much answering your own question. Also, in addition to the advantage of tax-free gains, your 529 contributions (up to $10k per year) are deductible from your NY state income taxes.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #256 on: November 28, 2017, 05:56:16 PM »
Unless you start saving for tuition before the child starts school and the fund has gains, how would a 529 help frum families?
IIRC 529s can be rolled over from one child to the next. So, if you start with first child, and maximize the contributions every year, by the time the child is a teenager, it might work, and if not, just roll over to the next kid.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #257 on: November 28, 2017, 05:58:13 PM »
I'm assuming you know this already, but there is currently a way to accomplish most of what a 529 does and spend it on yeshiva tuition - Coverdell ESA. The limits are ridiculously low though ($2k per kid per year) and there's no NYS income tax deduction like on the 529. I've set them up for my kids, but lately I've been thinking it's more trouble than it's worth.You're very much answering your own question. Also, in addition to the advantage of tax-free gains, your 529 contributions (up to $10k per year) are deductible from your NY state income taxes.
I did Coverdells for two (IINM) of my kids. Pulled it out at a certain point. Limits are low and no NYS deduction, so no huge benefit.

IIRC, there was absolutely nowhere on the tax return to report the distribution/use of funds when I pulled out.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yitzf

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2623
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #258 on: November 28, 2017, 05:59:14 PM »
IIRC 529s can be rolled over from one child to the next. So, if you start with first child, and maximize the contributions every year, by the time the child is a teenager, it might work, and if not, just roll over to the next kid.
The frum families we are talking about can barely afford current expenses let alone prepaying tuition years in advance.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #259 on: November 28, 2017, 06:49:07 PM »
The frum families we are talking about can barely afford current expenses let alone prepaying tuition years in advance.
But if tuition is $2,000-$3,000 up to age 14 or 15, and then it's anywhere between $5,000 and $15,000 per year, a family might put away a some money early on, to make it easier later, especially if there's a tax deduction. A family living in NY on $150,000 (and more) can use a tax deduction, and could still be struggling, getting serious reprieve from this.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan