Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 138362 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #440 on: December 12, 2017, 12:00:42 PM »
On what basis? It would be religion neutral.
IDK. I'm not a constitutional law expert. But I find it very hard to believe that if it were a left leaning court, the libs wouldn't find something to bring up and have it struck down by the SCOTUS at some point.

How about it favoring Religious schools over other private schools?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #441 on: December 12, 2017, 12:02:11 PM »



How about it favoring Religious schools over other private schools?
It shouldn't
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #442 on: December 12, 2017, 12:07:15 PM »
It shouldn't
Does the provision say that ANY Private school tuition is to be considered a charitable contribution?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #443 on: December 12, 2017, 12:13:19 PM »
Does the provision say that ANY Private school tuition is to be considered a charitable contribution?
+1. I think I got a little thrown off because the comment you quoted from Dan said 'private school tuition'. In reality, the portion of the senate bill that was written and then crossed out says "DEDUCTION FOR TUITION PAYMENTS FOR QUALIFIED RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION". Also, it was 25% of tuition, not the full amount.

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rXqXuQfYbRas/v0
(page 70)

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #444 on: December 12, 2017, 09:33:57 PM »
At this point, how likely is it that the 24k standard deduction will be on the final bill?

Offline gozalim

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #445 on: December 12, 2017, 10:35:53 PM »
On what basis? It would be religion neutral.
they'd probably try the same fallacy they tried (sometimes successfully) against vouchers (and ESAs) that if a federal deduction ends up in religious coffers that somehow "breaches the wall of separation of church and state".
No matter that the money never entered government hands in the first place...

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #446 on: December 12, 2017, 10:45:02 PM »
they'd probably try the same fallacy they tried (sometimes successfully) against vouchers (and ESAs) that if a federal deduction ends up in religious coffers that somehow "breaches the wall of separation of church and state".
No matter that the money never entered government hands in the first place...
Separation of church and state is not in the constitution
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #447 on: December 12, 2017, 11:16:42 PM »
At this point, how likely is it that the 24k standard deduction will be on the final bill?


Very much so.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #448 on: December 12, 2017, 11:25:36 PM »
Separation of church and state is not in the constitution
You and I know that, but liberal activist judges might find a way to argue differently.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #449 on: December 12, 2017, 11:38:29 PM »
Very much so.
thanks, I'm looking into setting up and funding a DAF based on that assumption.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #450 on: December 12, 2017, 11:44:46 PM »
thanks, I'm looking into setting up and funding a DAF based on that assumption.
Can you elaborate, why you would look to set up a Donor Advised Fund based on the 24,000? What will you gain whether its 12,000 or 24,000?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #451 on: December 12, 2017, 11:49:25 PM »
Can you elaborate, why you would look to set up a Donor Advised Fund based on the 24,000? What will you gain whether its 12,000 or 24,000?

I assume he means that due to the 24k floor and reduced deductions he wont itemize in 2018 so he wants to "pre pay" his 2018 charitable contributions in 2017.

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #452 on: December 12, 2017, 11:56:13 PM »
Can you elaborate, why you would look to set up a Donor Advised Fund based on the 24,000? What will you gain whether its 12,000 or 24,000?
simple, my itemized deductions not including charity= 12-14k, so next year I would have to give 12k+ in charity in order to start capturing any tax benefit on my charity.
This year I'm still itemizing so if I load an additional year or so worth of charity to a DAF I would get the benefit right back in a few months at tax time (25% back).

Am I missing something?

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #453 on: December 12, 2017, 11:57:16 PM »
I assume he means that due to the 24k floor and reduced deductions he wont itemize in 2018 so he wants to "pre pay" his 2018 charitable contributions in 2017.
exactly. It's almost a use it or lose it situation, and I'm thinking of loading more than a years worth...

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #454 on: December 13, 2017, 12:02:20 AM »
For anyone else who is interested, especially Lakewood residents, I found a good option with https://thedonorsfund.org , a few people recommended them to me.
They also have an option to setup an account to get"certificates" either printed booklets or blank amounts, so you can easily use them for small amounts like meshulachim etc...

Offline Mikeoracle

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #455 on: December 13, 2017, 12:04:52 AM »
For anyone else who is interested, especially Lakewood residents, I found a good option with https://thedonorsfund.org , a few people recommended them to me.
They also have an option to setup an account to get"certificates" either printed booklets or blank amounts, so you can easily use them for small amounts like meshulachim etc...
They work with anyone, but I think around Lakewood everyone is familiar with their certificates and now how to redeem them, so it's no hassle

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #456 on: December 13, 2017, 12:33:40 AM »
simple, my itemized deductions not including charity= 12-14k, so next year I would have to give 12k+ in charity in order to start capturing any tax benefit on my charity.
This year I'm still itemizing so if I load an additional year or so worth of charity to a DAF I would get the benefit right back in a few months at tax time (25% back).

Am I missing something?
Sounds right.
So suppose someone gives 10k, you will save 2500 if you are in the 25% bracket.

How does it work? Lets say you give them 10k. Which charities can you then give the 10k to?
What fee do they charge for you giving them 10k to distribute? (If anything they should pay you, since they can invest your money until you tell them where to send it.)

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #457 on: December 13, 2017, 12:34:31 AM »
For anyone else who is interested, especially Lakewood residents, I found a good option with https://thedonorsfund.org , a few people recommended them to me.
They also have an option to setup an account to get"certificates" either printed booklets or blank amounts, so you can easily use them for small amounts like meshulachim etc...

So the printed booklets have a 3% or 4% fee for the donor, but do they they give the full amount to the meshulach when he redeems it, or do they take a cut there also?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #458 on: December 13, 2017, 01:05:09 AM »
So the printed booklets have a 3% or 4% fee for the donor, but do they they give the full amount to the meshulach when he redeems it, or do they take a cut there also?
Haven't looked at what other funds charge, but they seem to be charging 50bps per month on first $500k in assets (and lower on additional assets), and then 3%-4% if you use the certificates. Sounds quite lucrative.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline gozalim

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #459 on: December 13, 2017, 01:28:06 AM »
Haven't looked at what other funds charge, but they seem to be charging 50bps per month on first $500k in assets (and lower on additional assets), and then 3%-4% if you use the certificates. Sounds quite lucrative.
won't some banks let you create your own DAF for a reasonable minimum deposit without all those cuts?