Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 138364 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #500 on: December 14, 2017, 09:11:09 AM »
How is that relevant. Sure NY and CA have richer people than Alabama.
How is THAT relevant? The fact is that it is the high tax states subsidizing the low tax ones not the other way around. So the SALT deduction makes them subsidized less? They are still subsidized not subsidizing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #501 on: December 14, 2017, 09:25:09 AM »
How is THAT relevant? The fact is that it is the high tax states subsidizing the low tax ones not the other way around. So the SALT deduction makes them subsidized less? They are still subsidized not subsidizing.
I think you're confusing state income tax vs total state tax burden. I don't think Texas gets back much less per federal tax dollar sent than NY, but Texas spends less per capita and also taxes in other ways which aren't captured in the current deduction. Of course low-income States will get back more from the Federal govt but I don't see that as correlated with their state income tax rate.

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #502 on: December 14, 2017, 09:39:16 AM »
I think you're confusing state income tax vs total state tax burden. I don't think Texas gets back much less per federal tax dollar sent than NY, but Texas spends less per capita and also taxes in other ways which aren't captured in the current deduction. Of course low-income States will get back more from the Federal govt but I don't see that as correlated with their state income tax rate.

Bottom line the low tax states are subsidized by the high tax states not the other way around. Are there some that are the opposite? sure, but no tax plan doesn't have those who fall through the cracks. Why are you differentiating between methods of taxation?

These are the most recent numbers I found quickly but there may be better out there.
https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fedspend_per_taxesbystate-20071009.pdf
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #503 on: December 14, 2017, 09:50:01 AM »
Bottom line the low tax states are subsidized by the high tax states not the other way around. Are there some that are the opposite? sure, but no tax plan doesn't have those who fall through the cracks. Why are you differentiating between methods of taxation?

These are the most recent numbers I found quickly but there may be better out there.
https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fedspend_per_taxesbystate-20071009.pdf
Wow, that's actually pretty remarkable - how well correlated lower state tax burden seems to be to high federal spending per federal tax dollar (and vice versa). I'm curious to see other factors layered on (population, state spending patterns, etc.)

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #504 on: December 14, 2017, 09:53:09 AM »
Wow, that's actually pretty remarkable - how well correlated lower state tax burden seems to be to high federal spending per federal tax dollar (and vice versa). I'm curious to see other factors layered on (population, state spending patterns, etc.)
There are reasons for the correlation.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #505 on: December 14, 2017, 09:57:16 AM »
There are reasons for the correlation.
Like I said, I'd be interested to see the rest of the data - it's pretty clear that one doesn't cause the other. Doesn't make the contrast any less stark.

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #506 on: December 14, 2017, 09:58:25 AM »
Bottom line the low tax states are subsidized by the high tax states not the other way around. Are there some that are the opposite? sure, but no tax plan doesn't have those who fall through the cracks. Why are you differentiating between methods of taxation?

These are the most recent numbers I found quickly but there may be better out there.
https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fedspend_per_taxesbystate-20071009.pdf
I don't believe that's true, it's not a state thing it's an individual thing. We all know that our system of tax and entitlements transfers wealth from the rich to the poor, that is not our discussion here. If a state happens to have more poor people then they will get more federal dollars but that's not because their state is taxing their residents less. AL gets back more than NJ because it has more poor people, nothing to do with their state tax rate.

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #507 on: December 14, 2017, 10:01:37 AM »
I don't believe that's true, it's not a state thing it's an individual thing. We all know that our system of tax and entitlements transfers wealth from the rich to the poor, that is not our discussion here. If a state happens to have more poor people then they will get more federal dollars but that's not because their state is taxing their residents less. AL gets back more than NJ because it has more poor people, nothing to do with their state tax rate.

You are picking and choosing what data to include. The fact is that NY is subsidizing Alabama and not the other way around. NY's tax rates are also progressive you know?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #508 on: December 14, 2017, 10:02:08 AM »
I don't believe that's true, it's not a state thing it's an individual thing. We all know that our system of tax and entitlements transfers wealth from the rich to the poor, that is not our discussion here. If a state happens to have more poor people then they will get more federal dollars but that's not because their state is taxing their residents less. AL gets back more than NJ because it has more poor people, nothing to do with their state tax rate.
You're taking a very specific view of how the federal budget should be divide up the portion of its funding received from individual income taxes and then stating that the SALT deduction must be removed because of that view. Not everyone agrees with that view.

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #509 on: December 14, 2017, 10:06:58 AM »
You're taking a very specific view of how the federal budget should be divide up the portion of its funding received from individual income taxes and then stating that the SALT deduction must be removed because of that view. Not everyone agrees with that view.
Exactly. Specifically, it is conservatives who don't agree with that view. If you believe that the rich should not be subsidizing the poor then don't use that as an argument. That is what you are doing to justify a supposedly conservative plan. (Of course the Dems are doing the same in the opposite direction)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #510 on: December 14, 2017, 10:08:01 AM »
You are picking and choosing what data to include. The fact is that NY is subsidizing Alabama and not the other way around. NY's tax rates are also progressive you know?
Like I said, it has nothing to do with NY State. Rich people in AL subsidize poor people in NY too. It's the rich people subsidizing poor people.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #511 on: December 14, 2017, 10:09:20 AM »
im not an accountant but I would assume that if the NYers can't deduct their local taxes than the local government will have to figure out a way to alleviate the burden on the citizens of that state
if that means lowering income tax but raising sales tax which is how I think they will end up going.

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #512 on: December 14, 2017, 10:11:51 AM »
Like I said, it has nothing to do with NY State. Rich people in AL subsidize poor people in NY too. It's the rich people subsidizing poor people.
They are also the ones who take the itemized deduction for SALT and definitely at higher amounts. The poor do not pay SALT either. They rent and are below state income tax thresholds as well.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #513 on: December 14, 2017, 10:12:07 AM »
You're taking a very specific view of how the federal budget should be divide up the portion of its funding received from individual income taxes and then stating that the SALT deduction must be removed because of that view. Not everyone agrees with that view.
The way I see it, a rich person in Texas is subsidizing another rich guy in New York who takes the deduction.

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #514 on: December 14, 2017, 10:14:25 AM »
They are also the ones who take the itemized deduction for SALT and definitely at higher amounts. The poor do not pay SALT either. They rent and are below state income tax thresholds as well.
You're furthering my point, the rich guy in New York is paying less federal taxes and the rich people in Texas have to make that up even though they got absolutely no benefit from New York income taxes.

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #515 on: December 14, 2017, 02:20:20 PM »
I think it was brought up.
But didn't someone say that whatever you deduct and helps you on your 2017 tax return, will need to end on on your 2018 tax return as income on line 10?
10 ----Taxable refunds, credits, or offsets of state and local income taxes .

So do you gain?
If you will be in a lower tax bracket in 2018 you can overpay in 2017 get the deduction in 2017 ask for a refund  and pay the tax on it in 2018 at a lower rate. Depending on the drop of your bracket that could be a quick return on your money.


Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #517 on: December 14, 2017, 02:58:55 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/rubio-to-vote-against-gop-tax-bill-unless-tax-credit-for-working-poor-is-expanded/2017/12/14/8be53a22-e0f9-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?utm_term=.812d7650e8ff
Wow Rubio has thrown down the gauntlet. Do they call his bluff?
Honestly it would benefit many lower income earners and would be great PR for the Republicans. CNN and MSNBC will have a harder time ripping the tax plan.

Offline yitzf

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Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #519 on: December 14, 2017, 04:16:19 PM »
Bottom line the low tax states are subsidized by the high tax states not the other way around. Are there some that are the opposite? sure, but no tax plan doesn't have those who fall through the cracks. Why are you differentiating between methods of taxation?

These are the most recent numbers I found quickly but there may be better out there.
https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/fedspend_per_taxesbystate-20071009.pdf
These numbers are worthless. Texas gets more money for border security and other states "get" more money because Lockheed Martin is located there. Point being that most of the money that the government spends in any state is not used specifically for that state making the whole idea of "donor states" moot.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.