Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 138406 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #520 on: December 14, 2017, 04:20:11 PM »
The issue with the SALT deduction is that when California increases their taxes they know that a big chunk of it is being subsidized by the Federal government and the same thing the other way, when senators and congressmen from california vote to increase federal taxes, they know that they won't pay a lot of it because they take major SALT deductions.
Ben Shapiro explains it very well here http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article189600289.html
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #521 on: December 14, 2017, 04:22:06 PM »
These numbers are worthless. Texas gets more money for border security and other states "get" more money because Lockheed Martin is located there. Point being that most of the money that the government spends in any state is not used specifically for that state making the whole idea of "donor states" moot.
Agreed. I was using his metric
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #522 on: December 14, 2017, 04:22:51 PM »
The issue with the SALT deduction is that when California increases their taxes they know that a big chunk of it is being subsidized by the Federal government and the same thing the other way, when senators and congressmen from california vote to increase federal taxes, they know that they won't pay a lot of it because they take major SALT deductions.
Ben Shapiro explains it very well here http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article189600289.html
This is more like it
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #523 on: December 14, 2017, 04:30:57 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/rubio-to-vote-against-gop-tax-bill-unless-tax-credit-for-working-poor-is-expanded/2017/12/14/8be53a22-e0f9-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?utm_term=.812d7650e8ff
Senator Lee needs to be called as well to team up with Rubio and also threaten to vote no. If they are united, they will have to give them what they want, since they need the 2 votes.

The last thing Rubio wants is to vote no, and then they use Pence to break the tie in the Senate. Then Rubio will be ridiculed by the Republicans forever for voting no, and he will never get big corporate donations.
But if he has Lee with him, they will only have 49 votes, so they will give in to him, and will make adjustments to get him on board.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #524 on: December 14, 2017, 04:35:20 PM »
Senator Lee needs to be called as well to team up with Rubio and also threaten to vote no. If they are united, they will have to give them what they want, since they need the 2 votes.

The last thing Rubio wants is to vote no, and then they use Pence to break the tie in the Senate. Then Rubio will be ridiculed by the Republicans forever for voting no, and he will never get big corporate donations.
But if he has Lee with him, they will only have 49 votes, so they will give in to him, and will make adjustments to get him on board.
Great idea, lets push everyone to fight for something else so we end up where we did with healthcare. Why can't anyone take a step back and say "this is the right thing to do and it's the best thing for our country" even if it doesn't work perfectly to your current needs, instead of looking at it like a socialist "how much more can I get out of the government"
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #525 on: December 14, 2017, 04:40:07 PM »
The issue with the SALT deduction is that when California increases their taxes they know that a big chunk of it is being subsidized by the Federal government and the same thing the other way, when senators and congressmen from california vote to increase federal taxes, they know that they won't pay a lot of it because they take major SALT deductions.
Ben Shapiro explains it very well here http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article189600289.html
How does a salt deduction help an increase in federal taxes? If the federal rates increase so the salt deduction is worth slightly more but they're paying more taxes on the rest of their income.


Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #527 on: December 14, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »
Great idea, lets push everyone to fight for something else so we end up where we did with healthcare. Why can't anyone take a step back and say "this is the right thing to do and it's the best thing for our country" even if it doesn't work perfectly to your current needs, instead of looking at it like a socialist "how much more can I get out of the government"
Because the concessions Senator Collins gets from them is fine, and what Senator Johnson gets for threatening is fine, but Rubio is not allowed to stand up for families and kids?? Only other Senators are allowed to threaten and be taken seriously?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #528 on: December 14, 2017, 04:44:57 PM »
How does a salt deduction help an increase in federal taxes? If the federal rates increase so the salt deduction is worth slightly more but they're paying more taxes on the rest of their income.
Correct. It's partially subsidized, which makes politicians more likely to raise taxes.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #529 on: December 14, 2017, 04:48:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/YossiGestetner/status/941403795958968320


Im pro helping middle income families even more so.

Who wants to argue that it doesn't cost a lot more then $2000 to raise a child each year?  So if he wants to expand it for parents making 60k or 90k, im all for it.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #530 on: December 14, 2017, 04:51:11 PM »
Because the concessions Senator Collins gets from them is fine, and what Senator Johnson gets for threatening is fine, but Rubio is not allowed to stand up for families and kids?? Only other Senators are allowed to threaten and be taken seriously?
The reason we end up with a convoluted law is because of senators who threaten to screw the country because of something petty. If all senators would agree to vote for the tax plan because it's overall good for us then we can have civilized discussions about how to tweak it to make it better. If everyone was like Collins and Johnson then we'll end up the same way we did with healthcare - Royally Screwed because no one is willing to give in. The answer is not to threaten to ruin an overall good bill because of a few small details.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #531 on: December 14, 2017, 04:52:45 PM »
Who wants to argue that it doesn't cost a lot more then $2000 to raise a child each year?
That's completely irrelevant to this conversation.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #532 on: December 14, 2017, 04:53:08 PM »
The reason we end up with a convoluted law is because of senators who threaten to screw the country because of something petty. If all senators would agree to vote for the tax plan because it's overall good for us then we can have civilized discussions about how to tweak it to make it better. If everyone was like Collins and Johnson then we'll end up the same way we did with healthcare - Royally Screwed because no one is willing to give in. The answer is not to threaten to ruin an overall good bill because of a few small details.
Its not fair that Collins or Johnson should be able to run around and show their constituents what they managed to get added in, but not Rubio.
If the only way they got to add things in, was by threatening, then unfortunately Rubio needs to use that Avenue as well.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #533 on: December 14, 2017, 04:56:29 PM »
The reason we end up with a convoluted law is because of senators who threaten to screw the country because of something petty. If all senators would agree to vote for the tax plan because it's overall good for us then we can have civilized discussions about how to tweak it to make it better. If everyone was like Collins and Johnson then we'll end up the same way we did with healthcare - Royally Screwed because no one is willing to give in. The answer is not to threaten to ruin an overall good bill because of a few small details.
What makes you think they think it is a good bill? The only reason they support a bad bill is because they get something.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #534 on: December 14, 2017, 04:56:54 PM »
Correct. It's partially subsidized, which makes politicians more likely to raise taxes.
If someone has taxable income of 100k, a salt deduction of 15K, and federal rates rise by 2%, then he'll owe an extra 2k less 15k*2%= 300 for a total of 1.7k additional tax. So you're saying that Dianne Feinstein will say that we're increasing your taxes by $2,000 but that's okay because your salt deduction is worth an additional 300.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #535 on: December 14, 2017, 04:57:16 PM »
Its not fair that Collins or Johnson should be able to run around and show their constituents what they managed to get added in, but not Rubio.
You're right so instead no one should. We should just kill the whole tax cut bill in the name of fair bragging rights. TBH if i were in either of their states I would NOT be happy with what their doing. I am all for everyone having civilized discussions but to throw in the towel just because YOUR tax cutout was taken away or any other relatively minor detail is very childish.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #536 on: December 14, 2017, 04:58:44 PM »
If someone has taxable income of 100k, a salt deduction of 15K, and federal rates rise by 2%, then he'll owe an extra 2k less 15k*2%= 300 for a total of 1.7k additional tax. So you're saying that Dianne Feinstein will say that we're increasing your taxes by $2,000 but that's okay because your salt deduction is worth an additional 300.
It makes it easier to push the tax increase.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #537 on: December 14, 2017, 05:00:18 PM »

Offline avromie7

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #538 on: December 14, 2017, 05:04:01 PM »
What makes you think they think it is a good bill? The only reason they support a bad bill is because they get something.
I believe that cutting taxes, removing deductions, and simplifying the tax code is a good thing. If you disagree, I'd like to hear why.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #539 on: December 14, 2017, 05:09:09 PM »
I believe that cutting taxes, removing deductions, and simplifying the tax code is a good thing. If you disagree, I'd like to hear why.
My point was they are more likely to vote for a bad bill if they get something than to kill a good bill because they didn't.

With what you said I agree with if it helps the low/middle income the most. Trying to sell this as a middle working class tax cut is a joke.
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