Author Topic: Trump-Republican tax plan, Bad for large families  (Read 140088 times)

Online Deal Guy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #780 on: December 26, 2017, 06:25:30 PM »
What about medical insurance premiums for 2018? Can you prepay 12 months of 2018 health insurance premiums, so that when you itemize in 2017, you will have 2 years (2017-2018) health insurance premiums on your 2017 itemized deductions?

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #781 on: December 26, 2017, 07:46:24 PM »
What about medical insurance premiums for 2018? Can you prepay 12 months of 2018 health insurance premiums, so that when you itemize in 2017, you will have 2 years (2017-2018) health insurance premiums on your 2017 itemized deductions?
Anyone?

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #782 on: December 26, 2017, 08:04:55 PM »
What about medical insurance premiums for 2018? Can you prepay 12 months of 2018 health insurance premiums, so that when you itemize in 2017, you will have 2 years (2017-2018) health insurance premiums on your 2017 itemized deductions?
It's an old strategy called bunching, where if your medical expenses don't reach the threshold, you do on and off years and so you only have 1 threshold for 2 years of medical expenses. Can also be used for standard vs itemizing.

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #783 on: December 26, 2017, 08:16:35 PM »
It's an old strategy called bunching, where if your medical expenses don't reach the threshold, you do on and off years and so you only have 1 threshold for 2 years of medical expenses. Can also be used for standard vs itemizing.
So you are saying that you know that it's definitely been utilized by others. That's good to know. Don't know why I never thought of it before?

Offline mr12

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #784 on: December 26, 2017, 08:35:45 PM »
So you are saying that you know that it's definitely been utilized by others. That's good to know. Don't know why I never thought of it before?
More helpful this year than the past few years now that threshold is back down to 7.5% of AGI

Offline yelped

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #785 on: December 26, 2017, 08:38:18 PM »
More helpful this year than the past few years now that threshold is back down to 7.5% of AGI
You mean next year, I believe.

Offline mr12

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #786 on: December 26, 2017, 08:44:52 PM »

Offline yitzf

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #787 on: December 26, 2017, 09:20:12 PM »
So you are saying that you know that it's definitely been utilized by others. That's good to know. Don't know why I never thought of it before?
I'm not saying that, but it's definitely out there. Google it.

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #788 on: December 27, 2017, 05:49:19 PM »
For Partnerships less then 315k,
will the passive partner also be eligible for the 20% pass through? Any source?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #789 on: December 28, 2017, 05:22:18 AM »
For Partnerships less then 315k,
will the passive partner also be eligible for the 20% pass through? Any source?
It has to be on "qualified business income".

If this is very strictly defined, it may preclude certain investment income.. otherwise, passive pass through income of qbi has the deduction.

Also, apparently guaranteed payments to partners are not included in the w2 limitation. (I think)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:33:17 AM by churnbabychurn »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #790 on: December 28, 2017, 05:31:17 AM »
SEC. 199A. QUALIFIED BUSINESS INCOME.

“(a) In General.—In the case of a taxpayer other than a corporation, there shall be allowed as a deduction for any taxable year an amount equal to the lesser of—

“(1) the combined qualified business income amount of the taxpayer, or

“(2) an amount equal to 17.4 percent of the excess (if any) of—

“(A) the taxable income of the taxpayer for the taxable year, over

“(B) any net capital gain (as defined in section 1(h)) of the taxpayer for the taxable year.

“(b) Combined Qualified Business Income Amount.—For purposes of this section—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘combined qualified business income amount’ means, with respect to any taxable year, an amount equal to—

“(A) the sum of the amounts determined under paragraph (2) for each qualified trade or business carried on by the taxpayer, plus

“(B) 17.4 percent of the aggregate amount of the qualified REIT dividends and qualified cooperative dividends of the taxpayer for the taxable year.

“(2) DETERMINATION OF DEDUCTIBLE AMOUNT FOR EACH TRADE OR BUSINESS.—The amount determined under this paragraph with respect to any qualified trade or business is the lesser of—

“(A) 17.4 percent of the taxpayer's qualified business income with respect to the qualified trade or business, or

“(B) 50 percent of the W-2 wages with respect to the qualified trade or business.

“(3) MODIFICATIONS TO THE WAGE LIMIT BASED ON TAXABLE INCOME.—

“(A) EXCEPTION FROM WAGE LIMIT.—In the case of any taxpayer whose taxable income for the taxable year does not exceed the threshold amount, paragraph (2) shall be applied without regard to subparagraph (B).

“(B) PHASE-IN OF LIMIT FOR CERTAIN TAXPAYERS.—

“(i) IN GENERAL.—If—

“(I) the taxable income of a taxpayer for any taxable year exceeds the threshold amount, but does not exceed the sum of the threshold amount plus $50,000 ($100,000 in the case of a joint return), and

“(II) the amount determined under paragraph (2)(B) (determined without regard to this subparagraph) with respect to any qualified trade or business carried on by the taxpayer is less than the amount determined under paragraph (2)(A) with respect such trade or business,

then paragraph (2) shall be applied with respect to such trade or business without regard to subparagraph (B) thereof and by reducing the amount determined under subparagraph (A) thereof by the amount determined under clause (ii).

“(ii) AMOUNT OF REDUCTION.—The amount determined under this subparagraph is the amount which bears the same ratio to the excess amount as—

“(I) the amount by which the taxpayer's taxable income for the taxable year exceeds the threshold amount, bears to

“(II) $50,000 ($100,000 in the case of a joint return).

“(iii) EXCESS AMOUNT.—For purposes of clause (ii), the excess amount is the excess of—

“(I) the amount determined under paragraph (2)(A) (determined without regard to this paragraph), over

“(II) the amount determined under paragraph (2)(B) (determined without regard to this paragraph).

“(4) WAGES, ETC.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘W-2 wages’ means, with respect to any person for any taxable year of such person, the amounts described in paragraphs (3) and (8) of section 6051(a) paid by such person with respect to employment of employees by such person during the calendar year ending during such taxable year.

“(B) LIMITATION TO WAGES ATTRIBUTABLE TO QUALIFIED BUSINESS INCOME.—Such term shall not include any amount which is not properly allocable to qualified business income for purposes of subsection (c)(1).

“(C) RETURN REQUIREMENT.—Such term shall not include any amount which is not properly included in a return filed with the Social Security Administration on or before the 60th day after the due date (including extensions) for such return.

“(5) ACQUISITIONS, DISPOSITIONS, AND SHORT TAXABLE YEARS.—The Secretary shall provide for the application of this subsection in cases of a short taxable year or where the taxpayer acquires, or disposes of, the major portion of a trade or business or the major portion of a separate unit of a trade or business during the taxable year.

“(c) Qualified Business Income.—For purposes of this section—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘qualified business income’ means, for any taxable year, the net amount of qualified items of income, gain, deduction, and loss with respect to any qualified trade or business of the taxpayer.

“(2) CARRYOVER OF LOSSES.—If the net amount of qualified income, gain, deduction, and loss with respect to qualified trade or businesses of the taxpayer amount for any taxable year is less than zero, such amount shall be treated as a loss from a qualified trade or business in the succeeding taxable year.

“(3) QUALIFIED ITEMS OF INCOME, GAIN, DEDUCTION, AND LOSS.—For purposes of this subsection—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘qualified items of income, gain, deduction, and loss’ means items of income, gain, deduction, and loss to the extent such items are—

“(i) effectively connected with the conduct of a trade or business within the United States (within the meaning of section 864(c), determined by substituting ‘qualified trade or business (within the meaning of section 199A)’ for ‘nonresident alien individual or a foreign corporation’ or for ‘a foreign corporation’ each place it appears), and

“(ii) included or allowed in determining taxable income for the taxable year.

“(B) EXCEPTIONS.—The following investment items shall not be taken into account as a qualified item of income, gain, deduction, or loss:

“(i) Any item of short-term capital gain, short-term capital loss, long-term capital gain, or long-term capital loss.

“(ii) Any dividend, income equivalent to a dividend, or payment in lieu of dividends described in section 954(c)(1)(G).

“(iii) Any interest income other than interest income which is properly allocable to a trade or business.

“(iv) Any item of gain or loss described in subparagraph (C) or (D) of section 954(c)(1) (applied by substituting ‘qualified trade or business’ for ‘controlled foreign corporation’).

“(v) Any item of income, gain, deduction, or loss taken into account under section 954(c)(1)(F) (determined without regard to clause (ii) thereof and other than items attributable to notional principal contracts entered into in transactions qualifying under section 1221(a)(7)).

“(vi) Any amount received from an annuity which is not received in connection with the trade or business.

“(vii) Any item of deduction or loss properly allocable to an amount described in any of the preceding clauses.

“(4) TREATMENT OF REASONABLE COMPENSATION AND GUARANTEED PAYMENTS.—Qualified business income shall not include—

“(A) reasonable compensation paid to the taxpayer by any qualified trade or business of the taxpayer for services rendered with respect to the trade or business,

“(B) any guaranteed payment described in section 707(c) paid to a partner for services rendered with respect to the trade or business, and

“(C) to the extent provided in regulations, any payment described in section 707(a) to a partner for services rendered with respect to the trade or business.

“(d) Qualified Trade Or Business.—For purposes of this section—

“(1) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘qualified trade or business’ means any trade or business other than a specified service trade or business.

“(2) SPECIFIED SERVICE TRADE OR BUSINESS.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘specified service trade or business’ means—

“(i) any trade or business involving the performance of services described in section 1202(e)(3)(A), including investing and investment management, trading, or dealing in securities (as defined in section 475(c)(2)), partnership interests, or commodities (as defined in section 475(e)(2)).

“(3) EXCEPTION FOR SPECIFIED SERVICE BUSINESSES BASED ON TAXPAYER'S INCOME.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—If, for any taxable year, the taxable income of any taxpayer is less than the sum of the threshold amount plus $50,000 ($100,000 in the case of a joint return), then—

“(i) the exception under paragraph (1) shall not apply to specified service trades or businesses of the taxpayer for the taxable year, but

“(ii) only the applicable percentage of qualified items of income, gain, deduction, or loss, and the W-2 wages, of the taxpayer allocable to such specified service trades or businesses shall be taken into account in computing the qualified business income and W-2 wages of the taxpayer for the taxable year for purposes of applying this section.

“(B) APPLICABLE PERCENTAGE.—For purposes of subparagraph (A), the term ‘applicable percentage’ means, with respect to any taxable year, 100 percent reduced (not below zero) by the percentage equal to the ratio of—

“(i) the taxable income of the taxpayer for the taxable year in excess of the threshold amount, bears to

“(ii) $50,000 ($100,000 in the case of a joint return).

“(e) Other Definitions.—For purposes of this section—

“(1) TAXABLE INCOME.—Taxable income shall be computed without regard to the deduction allowable under this section.

“(2) THRESHOLD AMOUNT.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘threshold amount’ means $250,000 (200 percent of such amount in the case of a joint return).

“(B) INFLATION ADJUSTMENT.—In the case of any taxable year beginning after 2018, the dollar amount in paragraph (1) shall be increased by an amount equal to—

“(i) such dollar amount, multiplied by

“(ii) the cost-of-living adjustment determined under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year in which the taxable year begins.

If any amount as increased under the preceding sentence is not a multiple of $1,000, such amount shall be rounded to the nearest multiple of $1,000.

“(3) QUALIFIED REIT DIVIDEND.—The term ‘qualified REIT dividend’ means any dividend from a real estate investment trust received during the taxable year which—

“(A) is not a capital gain dividend, as defined in section 857(b)(3), and

“(B) is not qualified dividend income, as defined in section 1(h)(11).

“(4) QUALIFIED COOPERATIVE DIVIDEND.—The term ‘qualified cooperative dividend’ means any patronage dividend (as defined in section 1388(a)), any per-unit retain allocation (as defined in section 1388(f)), and any qualified written notice of allocation (as defined in section 1388(c)), or any similar amount received from an organization described in subparagraph (B)(ii), which—

“(A) is includible in gross income, and

“(B) is received from—

“(i) an organization or corporation described in section 501(c)(12) or 1381(a), or

“(ii) an organization which is governed under this title by the rules applicable to cooperatives under this title before the enactment of subchapter T.

“(f) Special Rules.—

“(1) APPLICATION TO PARTNERSHIPS AND S CORPORATIONS.—

“(A) IN GENERAL.—In the case of a partnership or S corporation—

“(i) this section shall be applied at the partner or shareholder level,

“(ii) each partner or shareholder shall take into account such person's allocable share of each qualified item of income, gain, deduction, and loss, and

“(iii) each partner or shareholder shall be treated for purposes of subsection (b) as having W-2 wages for the taxable year in an amount equal to such person's allocable share of the W-2 wages of the partnership or S corporation for the taxable year (as determined under regulations prescribed by the Secretary).

For purposes of clause (iii), a partner's or shareholder's allocable share of W-2 wages shall be determined in the same manner as the partner's or shareholder's allocable share of wage expenses. For purposes of this subparagraph, in the case of an S corporation, an allocable share shall be the shareholder's pro rata share of an item.

“(B) APPLICATION TO TRUSTS AND ESTATES.—This section shall not apply to any trust or estate.

“(C) TREATMENT OF TRADES OR BUSINESS IN PUERTO RICO.—

“(i) IN GENERAL.—In the case of any taxpayer with qualified business income from sources within the commonwealth of Puerto Rico, if all such income is taxable under section 1 for such taxable year, then for purposes of determining the qualified business income of such taxpayer for such taxable year, the term ‘United States’ shall include the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

“(ii) SPECIAL RULE FOR APPLYING WAGE LIMITATION.—In the case of any taxpayer described in clause (i), the determination of W-2 wages of such taxpayer with respect to any qualified trade or business conducted in Puerto Rico shall be made without regard to any exclusion under section 3401(a)(8) for remuneration paid for services in Puerto Rico.

“(2) COORDINATION WITH MINIMUM TAX.—For purposes of determining alternative minimum taxable income under section 55, qualified business income shall be determined without regard to any adjustments under sections 56 through 59.

“(3) DEDUCTION LIMITED TO INCOME TAXES.—The deduction under subsection (a) shall only be allowed for purposes of this chapter.

“(4) REGULATIONS.—The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations as are necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations—

“(A) for requiring or restricting the allocation of items and wages under this section and such reporting requirements as the Secretary determines appropriate, and

“(B) for the application of this section in the case of tiered entities.

“(g) Termination.—This section shall not apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2025.”.

(b) Accuracy-Related Penalty On Determination Of Applicable Percentage.—Section 6662(d)(1) is amended by inserting at the end the following new subparagraph:

“(C) SPECIAL RULE FOR TAXPAYERS CLAIMING SECTION 199A DEDUCTION.—In the case of any taxpayer who claims the deduction allowed under section 199A for the taxable year, subparagraph (A) shall be applied by substituting ‘5 percent’ for ‘10 percent’.”.

(c) Conforming Amendments.—

(1) Section 170(b)(2)(D) is amended by striking “, and” at the end of clause (iv), by redesignating clause (v) as clause (vi), and by inserting after clause (iv) the following new clause:

“(v) section 199A, and”.

(2) Section 172(d) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

“(8) QUALIFIED BUSINESS INCOME DEDUCTION.—The deduction under section 199A shall not be allowed.”.

(3) Section 246(b)(1) is amended by inserting “199A,” before “243(a)(1)”.

(4) Section 613(a) is amended by inserting “and without the deduction under section 199A” after “and without the deduction under section 199”.

(5) Section 613A(d)(1) is amended by redesignating subparagraphs (C), (D), and (E) as subparagraphs (D), (E), and (F), respectively, and by inserting after subparagraph (B), the following new subparagraph:

“(C) any deduction allowable under section 199A,”.

(6) The table of sections for part VI of subchapter B of chapter 1 is amended by inserting at the end the following new item:


“Sec. 199A. Qualified business income.”.

(d) Effective Date.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2017.


Offline Boruch999

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #791 on: December 28, 2017, 06:07:16 AM »
A hedge fund who's income is entirely short-term capital gains is not eligible for the reduction, is that correct?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #792 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:44 AM »
A hedge fund who's income is entirely short-term capital gains is not eligible for the reduction, is that correct?
Correct.

Offline CPA

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #793 on: December 28, 2017, 09:37:52 AM »
that long piece which nobody can understand is from the original Senate bill not what passed.
Keep in mind the income limits are on the the individual not the Partnership. The deduction is taken on the personal return. You can have one partner in a partnership eligible for the 20% deduction while another is not.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #794 on: December 28, 2017, 11:28:21 AM »
seems like prepaying municipal taxes may not work unless you were officially assessedand given ur tax bill
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/business/prepaying-your-property-taxes-irs-cautions-it-might-not-pay-off.html
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline shapsam

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #795 on: December 28, 2017, 12:29:07 PM »
seems like prepaying municipal taxes may not work unless you were officially assessedand given ur tax bill
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/business/prepaying-your-property-taxes-irs-cautions-it-might-not-pay-off.html
Even if it is assessed it can trigger an audit...

Offline yelped

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #796 on: December 28, 2017, 12:40:31 PM »
Even if it is assessed it can trigger an audit...
In a year when everyone will be doing the same thing?  :o

Offline shapsam

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #797 on: December 28, 2017, 12:51:13 PM »
In a year when everyone will be doing the same thing?  :o
The IRS said they'll audit to make sure that it was assessed already. Obviously they can't audit everyone that does it but not worth the risk in my opinion (even if your taxes are kosher it's not worth the headache).

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #798 on: December 28, 2017, 01:37:35 PM »
How to pre pay NJ 2018 tax? Website doesn't have year 2018 in the drop-down.. is mailing a check good?

Offline EJB

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Re: Trump-Republican tax plan bad for large families
« Reply #799 on: December 28, 2017, 01:39:50 PM »
How to pre pay NJ 2018 tax? Website doesn't have year 2018 in the drop-down.. is mailing a check good?

State income tax? That won't work...