Author Topic: Chanukkah question  (Read 14232 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2016, 10:18:25 PM »
-1

The BY's is crystal clear.  The question is simple. There was no nes on the first night because there was enough oil to light.

The nes in the hava amina was in the Pach! Whether the pach remained full on the first night while pouring, or was miraculously full in the morning is debatable. But there was no nes in the neros on the first night. 


Apologies if someone already explained this.. didnt read all the way though yet.

ETA, noone. Im surprised. its pretty simple imho though. No?
The Hv'a was a nes similar to the regular nes of the oil with the novi where the kli remained full... Not a nes in the actuall neros.
That is what I meant by no nes in the hadlaka and I agree it is pashut.
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Offline danrocks613

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2016, 11:47:08 PM »
I have another question. Re the terutz on the B"Y question that they only used a little each night, and therefore there was a nes every night...

Why did they do this? Why didn't they have to use a full shiur on the first day?


Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2016, 01:20:05 AM »
-1

The BY's is crystal clear.  The question is simple. There was no nes on the first night because there was enough oil to light.

The nes in the hava amina was in the Pach! Whether the pach remained full on the first night while pouring, or was miraculously full in the morning is debatable. But there was no nes in the neros on the first night. 


Apologies if someone already explained this.. didnt read all the way though yet.

ETA, noone. Im surprised. its pretty simple imho though. No?
The Hv'a was a nes similar to the regular nes of the oil with the novi where the kli remained full... Not a nes in the actuall neros.
In the first and third terutzim, the nes was in the neiros, but in the second terutz, the nes was in the pach, so I don't know what you gained.

Offline sams

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2016, 03:00:25 AM »
Kasheh doesn't bother me..

Fakert, after learning and discussing the halochos of the mitzvos etc, IE the ikar of Chanukah, then it is the right time to ask btw what is this Chanukah about.
Yeshiva man style #lakewooder#brisker

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2016, 06:23:57 AM »
In the first and third terutzim, the nes was in the neiros, but in the second terutz, the nes was in the pach, so I don't know what you gained.
-3

Motzu HNEIROS meleim

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #85 on: December 26, 2016, 07:28:08 AM »
-3

Motzu HNEIROS meleim
That's in the third terutz.

In the second terutz - "nishar HaPACH malei".

Offline aygart

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #86 on: December 26, 2016, 09:59:48 AM »
In the first and third terutzim, the nes was in the neiros, but in the second terutz, the nes was in the pach, so I don't know what you gained.
Which is why I used the terminology I did of it being in the hadlaka. Either way in both parts of the second teirutz the nes had no effect on the first night and even though it may have occurred in the menorah it was not relevant.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2016, 10:00:28 AM »
That's in the third terutz.

In the second terutz - "nishar HaPACH malei".

Until you understand that there are only two teirutzim you will not understand the Bais Yosef.
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Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2016, 11:00:49 AM »
Until you understand that there are only two teirutzim you will not understand the Bais Yosef.
So whether the oil was left in the menorah or in the pach, the nes was in the menorah? How does that make sense?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2016, 11:01:25 AM »
Which is why I used the terminology I did of it being in the hadlaka. Either way in both parts of the second teirutz the nes had no effect on the first night and even though it may have occurred in the menorah it was not relevant.
??

Offline aygart

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2016, 11:02:34 AM »
So whether the oil was left in the menorah or in the pach, the nes was in the menorah? How does that make sense?
No in the second teirutz it was NOT in the menora since it had nothing to do with the hadlaka of the first night. You are complicating things for no reason.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2016, 11:19:10 AM »
That's in the third terutz.

In the second terutz - "nishar HaPACH malei".
Fine, maybe the hava amina is that the pach was full in the morning. Either way, the second answer is that this was considered a nes nikar on the first night..

Offline Bukboy

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2016, 01:14:54 PM »
I just saw the Beis Halevi writes the opposite. Had they gone ahead and used narrower wicks (1/8th of the usual thickness), they would naturally had enough oil for eight days. They only merited the miracle because they insisted on using the regular width wicks.
+1 and that's why we are makpid on mehadrin

Offline zh cohen

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Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2016, 04:21:53 PM »
No in the second teirutz it was NOT in the menora since it had nothing to do with the hadlaka of the first night. You are complicating things for no reason.
I didn't complicate anything...

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #95 on: December 26, 2016, 04:22:28 PM »
Fine, maybe the hava amina is that the pach was full in the morning. Either way, the second answer is that this was considered a nes nikar on the first night..
I was maskim to that already.
My issue was with the third terutz.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2016, 08:47:54 PM »
How does the BY learn the lashon hashas?


Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2016, 11:39:57 PM »
How does the BY learn the lashon hashas?

I assume you mean the first terutz...

There was enough oil to but for one full day, but it burned for eight.

Not so shver, but the pashtus have is more like the second/third terutz.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2016, 07:13:04 PM »
נראה לתת קצת ביאור במחלוקת הביה"ל והאב"ע שנחלקו אי אין לו אלא ב נרות ביום ג, אי מדליק רק א, או ב נרות.
ונראה שנחלקו באופן הנס.
שלהאבי עזרי נעשה הנס באופן שכל יום נשאר הפך מלא וכדו', ולכן ביום ג' ודאי שחייב להודות גם על נס של יום ב'- כי לולי נס יום שעבר, לא היה להדליק ביום ג. ממילא מדליק ב נרות גם ביום ג.
משא"כ הבית הלוי הבין שאופן הנס היה שחילקו השמן לשמונה חלקים וכדומה, ממילא, אין שייכות ביום ג' לנס של יום ב.
ודוק

Offline aygart

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Re: Chanukkah question
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2016, 08:51:26 PM »
נראה לתת קצת ביאור במחלוקת הביה"ל והאב"ע שנחלקו אי אין לו אלא ב נרות ביום ג, אי מדליק רק א, או ב נרות.
ונראה שנחלקו באופן הנס.
שלהאבי עזרי נעשה הנס באופן שכל יום נשאר הפך מלא וכדו', ולכן ביום ג' ודאי שחייב להודות גם על נס של יום ב'- כי לולי נס יום שעבר, לא היה להדליק ביום ג. ממילא מדליק ב נרות גם ביום ג.
משא"כ הבית הלוי הבין שאופן הנס היה שחילקו השמן לשמונה חלקים וכדומה, ממילא, אין שייכות ביום ג' לנס של יום ב.
ודוק
Except that the Bh"L writes that they did it bihidur and that is why we have mehadrin
Feelings don't care about your facts