Author Topic: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?  (Read 2036 times)

Offline SSLPhD

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2020, 10:19:41 AM »
Would you agree most white people grew up feeling safe?
I neither agree nor disagree. I only speak for myself.
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2020, 10:20:48 AM »


Would you agree most white people grew up feeling *safer*?

FTFM

Yes.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline biobook

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2020, 12:52:59 PM »
Thatís what is so warped; that the guy takes a kernel of truth, that whites feel safer than blacks and then proceeds to twist and distort it.
This warped, twisted logic is called "satire".  Today, we indicate that a text should be understood as satire by adding /s at the end.  For the past 300 years, satire was often indicated by using "A modest proposal" in the title, as Randomex wrote above.

This derives from a 1720s essay by Jonathan Swift, "A modest proposal For preventing the children of poor people in Ireland, from being a burden on their parents or country, and for making them beneficial to the publick." 

Swift begins with a sympathetic description of the poverty in which Irish children grow up, then explains how wealthy Englishmen can help them: Buy their babies.  "A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled..."

Swift continues to write a serious essay with evidence to bolster his point, but it's obvious to any reader that he is using humor to make a point. 

Gerald Early is also using satirical humor to make his point.  The Chronicle of Higher Education asked college professors, administrators and staff to comment on whether colleges should reopen in the fall.   Professor Early's essay takes the usual concern about safety and turns it on its head, suggesting that unsafety is the very reason to reopen, so that wealthy white students could learn about the everyday feelings of African Americans. 

His intended audience would be familiar with Swift's essay, and he emphasizes that his proposal is meant satirically, both by using Swift's title, and by writing in his final sentence that he does not modestly propose such retribution, but that considering this is an "exercise in empathy."

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2020, 12:54:21 PM »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline biobook

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2020, 12:55:05 PM »
@123-Rosh This is the 4th time in recent weeks that you've come here to disparage someone's ability to understand, including
Me:
You'll never understand anyways.

Its like explaining to whites the racism blacks endure. You'll never understand.
CV:

And you won't understand so I'm not going to bother getting all emotionally worked up about it.
Platinum Guy:
Trying to talk to platinumguy is like trying to explain to whites what it means for blacks to experience racism. There's no one home. Don't bother.
The world at large:
Its impossible to explain to a white person or to a non-ultra-Orthodox Jew, what it means to suffer persecution. Don't bother.

The goal of communication is to enable others to understand your position.  If you feel that you're deficient in the required skills, you can take a course or read some books on effective communication or writing convincing essays. 

You'll learn that there's never an excuse to place the blame for your inability to communicate on your audience's inability to understand. 

Offline Randomex

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2020, 08:58:53 PM »
writing in his final sentence that he does not modestly propose such retribution, but that considering this is an "exercise in empathy."

He didn't say that he doesn't mean the suggestion, just that he doesn't mean it as retribution.

Would he mention racial disparity of infection and death in a humorous piece?
(It is hard to believe someone would write in all seriousness that the criminalization
and exotification of blacks is due to whites' need for social distance, though.)
I no longer have constant Internet access, so you won't be seeing quite as much of me.

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2020, 09:03:39 PM »
@123-Rosh This is the 4th time in recent weeks that you've come here to disparage someone's ability to understand, including
Me:CV:Platinum Guy:The world at large:
The goal of communication is to enable others to understand your position.  If you feel that you're deficient in the required skills, you can take a course or read some books on effective communication or writing convincing essays. 

You'll learn that there's never an excuse to place the blame for your inability to communicate on your audience's inability to understand.

If you look back at all 4 of my comments, you'll see a common theme in all of them.

Someone who didn't experience antisemitism, racism, mental illness, abuse, etc. won't really understand what it is to experience them.

I stand by these comments. We can try to explain, and we do explain as much as we can, and you do understand some of it, but the bottom line is you don't fully understand the experience.

This is my 5th comment on the topic, and its the same theme as the others. Its true.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2020, 09:12:53 PM »
If you look back at all 4 of my comments, you'll see a common theme in all of them.

Someone who didn't experience antisemitism, racism, mental illness, abuse, etc. won't really understand what it is to experience them.

I stand by these comments. We can try to explain, and we do explain as much as we can, and you do understand some of it, but the bottom line is you don't fully understand the experience.

This is my 5th comment on the topic, and its the same theme as the others. Its true.
If someone experiences anti-Semitism does that mean they understand what a black person goes through with racism? The same questions goes with the situations reversed.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline moko

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2020, 09:41:44 PM »
If someone experiences anti-Semitism does that mean they understand what a black person goes through with racism? The same questions goes with the situations reversed.
nope
But this conversation is really pointless.
Of course going experiences allow to us to have a unique I understanding of a situation that others don't have, but that doesn't preclude those same people from empathizing with the suffering individual or community.
A therapist is not required to allow themselves to suffer a specific tragedy in order to help individuals through said tragedies.  Part of empathy is acknowledging that you cannot truly understand the suffering (even if you had a similar experience since no individuals are alike) while at the same time using the tos at our disposal to mitigate further suffering

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2020, 10:09:40 PM »
I agree, I was responding to biobook who wrote:

"You'll learn that there's never an excuse to place the blame for your inability to communicate on your audience's inability to understand."

Your inability to fully experience what I experienced does not reflect on my ability or inability to communicate.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2020, 11:03:20 PM »
Someone who didn't experience antisemitism, racism, mental illness, abuse, etc. won't really understand what it is to experience them.

Your inability to fully experience what I experienced

Notice the difference?

Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2020, 07:06:23 AM »

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2020, 10:38:23 AM »
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline biobook

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2020, 11:00:11 AM »
He didn't say that he doesn't mean the suggestion, just that he doesn't mean it as retribution.
That's not how I interpreted it, but I do see that you could read it that way.  Not sure now what he meant, so I'll write to him and see if he answers.
Quote
Would he mention racial disparity of infection and death in a humorous piece?
(It is hard to believe someone would write in all seriousness that the criminalization
and exotification of blacks is due to whites' need for social distance, though.)
Yes!  That's exactly what Swift did in his essay.  It's not intended as ROTF humor, but as a subtle sort of satire, in which he proposes to solve a serious problem with a solution that is over-the-top ludicrous.  The humor of his essay enticed people to read and pay attention to the problem, even if they obviously didn't adopt his solution. 

Those who want to write a convincing essay can learn from the way Swift provides evidence to support his idea, and raises counterarguments, only to shoot them down. 
You can read it here: https://www.owleyes.org/text/modest-proposal
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 11:13:55 AM by biobook »

Offline biobook

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Re: Is the need to feel safe white privilege?
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2020, 12:39:29 PM »
If you look back at all 4 of my comments, you'll see a common theme in all of them.
The themes I see:
1. It's not possible to explain what someone has experienced
2. Even if it were explained, nobody would understand
3. Therefore, it's not worth having a discussion

The problem with this is that you're writing on a forum for people who think that these discussions are worth having.  There have been many past discussions where someone tried to describe their unique background and experiences to the rest of the group.  If you feel that the attempt is not worthwhile, then perhaps you should just ignore these threads.

Quote
Someone who didn't experience antisemitism, racism, mental illness, abuse, etc. won't really understand what it is to experience them.

You seem to be saying that nobody can really deeply appreciate what another individual is experiencing unless they themselves have the identical experience.  That may be true, but despite that, people have always attempted to explain to others what they have experienced.  Those who didn't go through the concentration camps can't really understand what it was like, yet we have entire libraries filled with writings of people who have tried to explain it.  And, as moko points out, therapists haven't all experienced these conditions, yet can help those who have. 

Quote

I stand by these comments. We can try to explain, and we do explain as much as we can, and you do understand some of it, but the bottom line is you don't fully understand the experience.
When you say "we do explain as much as we can," you may be referring to prior discussions you had here or elsewhere. But in the recent discussions you not only made no attempt to explain anything, but you seemed to be cutting off any attempt at discussion by others, based on your expectation that nobody could possibly understand.

Your inability to fully experience what I experienced does not reflect on my ability or inability to communicate.
I have no interest in experiencing your experiences, as I'm sure you have no interest in experiencing mine.  But this isn't a virtual reality experience, it's a forum for discussion.  If you can make a contribution that will carry the discussion forward, then by all means do so.  Say what you think, support it with evidence.  If you find that your audience doesn't seem to understand, find a different way to explain it.