Author Topic: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...  (Read 91945 times)

Offline Luvtotravel

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #180 on: January 08, 2017, 11:00:29 PM »
IINM the rebbe advised against the traditional honeymoon, among other things, still adjusting to new set of rules, traveling, especially to places with no LOR/community (IIUC Jerusalem wouldn't have this issue).
 IMHO combine that with odds of besulim, you're better off saving the island vacation for a couple months later
of course it wasn't a honeymoon in the traditional sense as in right after wedding!
Don't wait for the perfect moment; take the moment and make it perfect.

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #181 on: January 08, 2017, 11:02:20 PM »
That soundbite also over generalizes touching as being only sexual. Touching can be an effective way to show compassion, empathy etc. We lose out on that opportunity during Nedah.
I disagree. I think needing to be able to work things out without the compassion etc. element of touch is also important.

To quote a nurse at the maternity ward, speaking about frum men interacting with their wives in labor:

"You are able to do with your eyes what most people need to use their hands for."

Offline as2

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #182 on: January 08, 2017, 11:05:20 PM »
Funny how this thread, which originally seemed very PC-ish took a turn for inspirational in a sense
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Offline Sport

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #183 on: January 08, 2017, 11:11:07 PM »


I disagree. I think needing to be able to work things out without the compassion etc. element of touch is also important.

To quote a nurse at the maternity ward, speaking about frum men interacting with their wives in labor:

"You are able to do with your eyes what most people need to use their hands for."

Why's that so important?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #184 on: January 08, 2017, 11:17:19 PM »
I think it runs deeper.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #185 on: January 08, 2017, 11:20:08 PM »

Why's that so important?

The argument is that touching (even in a non-sexual way) can make it easier to paper over issues that in the long term can cause damage to the relationship.

Offline thaber

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #186 on: January 08, 2017, 11:21:24 PM »

Why's that so important?
as per the Raymond article JTZ linked to - non verbal communication is linked to a deeper understanding of each other and a better relationship. kol shekein when you're not only replacing words, but even touch.

Offline thaber

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #187 on: January 08, 2017, 11:23:31 PM »
re lakes/oceans - definitely a very situation specific qurstion, and make sure you know how big the lake is and if it's man made before asking your competent LOR

Offline Sport

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #188 on: January 08, 2017, 11:24:35 PM »
The argument is that touching (even in a non-sexual way) can make it easier to paper over issues that in the long term can cause damage to the relationship.
I dont fully agree. It's all part of good communication.

Offline Dan

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #189 on: January 08, 2017, 11:25:21 PM »
re lakes/oceans - definitely a very situation specific qurstion, and make sure you know how big the lake is and if it's man made before asking your competent LOR
What does that have to do with re/oceans?
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Offline thaber

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #190 on: January 08, 2017, 11:30:40 PM »
What does that have to do with re/oceans?
you're being pedantic :)
Re Oceans -  the cons are discussed on the page in SA, IIRC. So you just need someone who actually knows that. Lakes are trickier

Offline Dan

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #191 on: January 08, 2017, 11:36:18 PM »
Can you imagine how much less entertaining this would be without JTZ here?
Also, JTZ -do you realize that for some here you are there main interaction with the non Jewish world? That's a serious weight to bear

Same goes for valuable input from our small handful of members of the fairer sex...

Not to get into the details of what's better or not or what's easier or not etc but at the end of the day if you're not happy,  adhering to these laws and others as well tend to just be hard and as seen as only a burden. I think many people are unhappy to begin with.     That's not to say you can't be a happy individual and have a hard time with certain aspects or even a big issue with them. But I do think many people are really just unhappy about other things to begin with.
I think a lot of people would benefit from knowing what's permitted AL pi halacha and what's just being more machmir etc.   You'd have less people completely throwing it all away and for those struggling to the degree of those in the article it could help their yiddeshkeit a lot IMO.

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Offline Luvtotravel

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #192 on: January 08, 2017, 11:41:07 PM »
Same goes for valuable input from our small handful of members of the fairer sex...
? where do you see any indication?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #193 on: January 08, 2017, 11:47:16 PM »
Been there done that.
Was is a camp for the summer many years ago and the closest mik was well over an hour away. Rabbi said to use the lake.
Eh, there were always the super-chasidish bochurim dipping in frozen lakes on shabbatons. Not quite what I was referring to ;)
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Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #194 on: January 08, 2017, 11:58:40 PM »
I dont fully agree. It's all part of good communication.
Yes, but maximizing the ability to communicate without touch doesn't take away from the power of touch when it is available, so it's win-win.

Offline yzj

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #195 on: January 09, 2017, 12:00:16 AM »
Logically touching all the time should lead to a closer marriage but then again logically cohabiting prior to marriage should help the relationship as well but there is clearly an inverse relationship in that regard. The real question is not what it does to the marriage in year one or two but what it does 10 or 20 years down the road. Anecdotally it seems that by those who don't keeps the laws that eventually there ends up being less touching and intimacy- I always seem to be reading about the wife who thinks her husband is getting romantic and then realizes he was just searching for the TV remote. Any factual studies out there? Other than the obvious fact that those who keep the laws tend to stay married longer etc which could also be attributed to cultural factors....just as the fact that the Hollywood types who always seem to be touching almost never seem to have stable or happy marriages probably has a lot to due with cultural influences and expectations that are prevelant among that population...

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #196 on: January 09, 2017, 12:03:07 AM »
Eh, there were always the super-chasidish bochurim dipping in frozen lakes on shabbatons. Not quite what I was referring to ;)

Every morning when I was in yeshiva in Moscow (the yeshiva was on campgrounds outside of the city, and they were building the mikvah).

And not an inch of ice either. There was one bochur who was in charge of bringing the ax, and cutting through ice that was thick enough to stand on.

Offline Dan

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #197 on: January 09, 2017, 12:04:12 AM »
Every morning when I was in yeshiva in Moscow (the yeshiva was on campgrounds outside of the city, and they were building the mikvah).

And not an inch of ice either. There was one bochur who was in charge of bringing the ax, and cutting through ice that was thick enough to stand on.
Lol, I'd call that Chosid Shoteh, but it's still impressive.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #198 on: January 09, 2017, 12:06:36 AM »
Lol, I'd call that Chosid Shoteh, but it's still impressive.

I'd probably agree with you today, but the things we do in our youth...

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: Taharas Hamishpacha Article Discussion For The Married Folk...
« Reply #199 on: January 09, 2017, 12:09:56 AM »
Not to get into the details of what's better or not or what's easier or not etc but at the end of the day if you're not happy,  adhering to these laws and others as well tend to just be hard and as seen as only a burden. I think many people are unhappy to begin with.     That's not to say you can't be a happy individual and have a hard time with certain aspects or even a big issue with them. But I do think many people are really just unhappy about other things to begin with.
There's no way such sentiments as expressed in that article could have been written by someone who was otherwise happy with their Yiddishkeit.